Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[moody7277]

Super tinfoil: I have seen Wam's role as a scum role more often than town, so Wam is definitely not cleared.

Super heavy duty aluminum foil: the scum team is {wam, Thea, Seven}.

[Freddino18]

Lead foil: I sure hope we can keep this helium in

[Seven]

The madge and fred slips have been discussed extensively. If anyone but Santy doesn’t have an idea of them, that is really on you.

[JC_DADDY25]

Ohh Got it tyty. Just in case then Im just going to avoid that thread until im nked hahaha

I tend to avoid it as well.

[JC_DADDY25]

I did my reads

OK. Let’s see your justification for your current vote.

@Adum asking for a sub

Pressure getting to you?

[JC_DADDY25]

Sorry I’m typing in bed and didn’t flesh that thought out fully.

Santy and Moody are mafia in both worlds (Santy, Moody, JC) or (Santy, Moody, bessie). So we need to eliminate the odd one out (JC or bessie) to determine which is the correct worldview.

If its going to be between Bessie and I, go ahead and take me out. I'm pretty sure we're both town and she's a better player than me, so she'd have a better chance of proving a solve than I would.

For what it's worth, my role PM also says I'm VT since we're kind of mass claiming.

[Santygrass]

The madge and fred slips have been discussed extensively. If anyone but Santy doesn’t have an idea of them, that is really on you.

If people is asking you to point to it, I dont get why you are refusing to do that. Point to a previous post of yours discussing them if needed.

I would also appreciate the elaboration on them

[Santygrass]

Sorry I’m typing in bed and didn’t flesh that thought out fully.

Santy and Moody are mafia in both worlds (Santy, Moody, JC) or (Santy, Moody, bessie). So we need to eliminate the odd one out (JC or bessie) to determine which is the correct worldview.

If its going to be between Bessie and I, go ahead and take me out. I'm pretty sure we're both town and she's a better player than me, so she'd have a better chance of proving a solve than I would.

For what it's worth, my role PM also says I'm VT since we're kind of mass claiming.

Can you please explain any of your reads? Please?

What do you think about Wam claiming cop and checking Seven to be VT ? You are still maintining your vote on them ?

[Santygrass]

Super tinfoil: I have seen Wam's role as a scum role more often than town, so Wam is definitely not cleared.

And do you think the claim here is scummy / could have agenda?
How were you reading Wam before?

[Seven]

Sorry I’m typing in bed and didn’t flesh that thought out fully.

Santy and Moody are mafia in both worlds (Santy, Moody, JC) or (Santy, Moody, bessie). So we need to eliminate the odd one out (JC or bessie) to determine which is the correct worldview.

Surely at this point we want the elim.with best odds?

From your perspective, JC has equal odds with the rest of your bottom 5 (or 3 if you accept the slips), correct? Looking at it though, it should lead to the same final 3 whether we eliminate inside or outside the overlap in our Venn diagram:


D3: Santy
N3: Wam
D4: Moody
N4: Seven
D5: JC
N5: Thea

D6
Bessie
Madge
Freddino18

V.S.

D3: JC
N3: Wam
D4: Santy
N4: Seven
D5: Moody
N5: Thea

D6
Bessie
Madge
Freddino18

(Note: Santy and Moody can swapped and Seven and Thea can be swapped)

Is anyone here red-green colorblind? I usually use colorblind-friendly colors but forgot to here.

I usually prefer to eliminate world views until we no longer have any MLs left, but I don't know if we do have a ML here. From a quick skim over the rules, I don't think xylo is announced. So you're right, we should be eliminating the player with the best odds of flipping wolf.

[Seven]

The madge and fred slips have been discussed extensively. If anyone but Santy doesn’t have an idea of them, that is really on you.

If people is asking you to point to it, I dont get why you are refusing to do that. Point to a previous post of yours discussing them if needed.

I would also appreciate the elaboration on them

Because I'm hungry, just woke up and it exhausts me to have to keep bringing up points that have already extensively been discussed. I will bring them up for you though after I eat.

[Santygrass]

Hi Seven! Please dont ignore me tytytyty . And provide reasons why you think Im scum since your preflipping is peepee poopoo
(Imagine me with a happy smile but the jojo menacing letters starting to pop off my back)

[Santygrass]

The madge and fred slips have been discussed extensively. If anyone but Santy doesn’t have an idea of them, that is really on you.

If people is asking you to point to it, I dont get why you are refusing to do that. Point to a previous post of yours discussing them if needed.

I would also appreciate the elaboration on them

Because I'm hungry, just woke up and it exhausts me to have to keep bringing up points that have already extensively been discussed. I will bring them up for you though after I eat.

It also exhaust me seeing you just preflipping me as scum without giving any reason or avenue to discuss why you are wrong tbh

[Santygrass]

(Though I appreciate that you do it for me, but should be for town in general if you really believe they are townslips)

[Seven]

Super tinfoil: I have seen Wam's role as a scum role more often than town, so Wam is definitely not cleared.

Yes, I was thinking this too. It was a misstep for town!wam to claim there since a) I had already indicated to him that I was aware of his result on me, and b) bessie wasn't going to be elimmed anytime soon. That being said, the tinfoil isn't necessary since Wam will be self-sorted through the night kill.

[Seven]

I think Seven is looking for reactions.

And why is that scummy? It should be NAI at most to me (Non Alignment Indicative) .

1. I think town!Seven would have been more cautious with a result. Like, he would consider that it may be redirected or false or manipulated.
2. I think town!Seven getting a guilty result on someone waits for his target to post some content before posting the result, maybe making connections.
3. Seven declaring his result and voting in his first post is careless because of #1. My assessment is that town!Seven wouldn’t have voted when he did. On D2 Seven made several posts that supported ending the day early, so he laid the groundwork for a quick elimination which is what he is doing today.

#1 and #2 are logical reasons to infer that I am/was gambiting, but are not reasons that support the idea that I am scum. #3 is not logical and contradicts your statement that I was looking for reactions. Which is it: am I trying to quickly eliminate you, or am I looking for reactions?

Additionally, if you believed I was looking for reactions, as you stated, it would not be sensible for you to vote me. Additionally, you did not yourself consider that my result could have been due to tampering, and instead voted me immediately. In my experience, this sort of reaction tends to come from caught scum. Townies tend to be more contemplative about what is going on and come to the conclusion that the result was tampered with.

@Madge @Wam I don't have anything further I wish to claim (yes, I'm aware this just makes it further look like I'm gambiting). But Wam, you of all people know that I'm good.

Noting this soft claim.

What is the soft claim?

My reads are also crap lol. If Bessie flips scum, I'm going after JC next.

Vote: Bessie

Noted.

Why did you note this?

Ebwop I have the answer I wanted from the mod so.im good to.go.

You’re good to go. I wrote it in my diary instead.

Noting for later. Did Seven claim another power here?

It took me a while to understand what you were getting at. We once had a role that revealed diary notes after they died. No, that's not what I meant. Why would you point this out? -1 for role fishing.

Both were attempting to save somi. Bessie put heury at 4. Moody stated he wouldn't switch, keeping the wagon stable. They likely anticipated I would switch to her, my previously stated preferred elimination. Madge would be deciding vote who was following Mak who likely would have come on end of day supporting heury elim based on his prior appearance patterns and reads.

wut.PNG

I voted for heury at the end of Day 1 so this vote didn’t come out of nowhere. Heury did nothing townie on Day 2. You yourself expressed the opinion that he was power wolfing.

This is disingenuous: you voted Heury D1 to secure an elimination. Fred was your preferred, and after Thea voted Heury, you told her you would switch to moody or wam to secure an elim, so it's not like you were hard pushing heury. D2, you weren't pressuring heury at any point until crunch time. You only asked him a few soft questions with no indication that you were FoSing him.

Interestingly, I also came across this while looking through your ISO:

Where did Mak go? I was hoping he would post.

Which supports my speculation here that you were anticipating Mak returning at the end of the day.

Side Note: open wolfing, not power wolfing. Open wolfing is playing in a way as a jester would.

Hey all. So my wife's water may have broke, just got to hospital. I'm town so don't vote me tonight.

For the record, had I been here, I would have hard pushed against the heury elim after this post. Who would be dishonorable enough to use a major life event like this to town claim? z25 You all are wild.

I was planning on attacking Heury starting with this post.
I was conflicted about eliminating heury in this post and offered to switch to somitomi to secure an elim.

Right, the first post came right after you voted. Your vote put the wagons at 4-3 heury. You remained on heury after what I believed to be an obvtown post. There is no conflict about your vote in the post you linked in terms of heury's alignment, only in terms of honor (eliminating someone who was having an irl thing).

If Heury flips town, Somi + Seven are scum.

Noting.

Why are you noting this here? It's out of order based on your sequential post-quoting playstyle. Answer: Agenda. -1

[madge]

This is stream of consciousness as I read.

Oh yay. Four or five pages? I'm not keeping up with this. I'm expecting work to be more intense for hte next 3 weeks, but we'll see. Mondays are also tough days for me in general as I have little time for myself.

@everyone: did anyone receive some sort of night action result on N1?

@mak: are you able to post today or do I have to have my own thoughts? either way I feel more confident now and I'm happy for you to tell me to just do my own thing, but in any case as long as you post them I will not vote off your townreads

@moody: how do we know we're one miselim away from ELO? ARe we informed of ELO? I think the general rule is you allow town 2-3 miselims? and with that the case, we're on our last one?

@wam: I am SO EXCITED for your game-winning solution right now (UPDATE: WHAAAT)

@santy: The thing you'll find about me is on D1 I'm a disgusting caterpiller, on D2 I'm a disgusting cocoon, and on D3+ I'm a beautiful butterfly. This is why I usually sign up to replace in, I like mechancis analysis and such once we have something to work on. Until then I just complain. If you believe bessie, I at one point will see the matrix code, declare "I Know Kung Fu", and solve the entire game. I'm not sure that's happened ever, except for the one notable case where I was the joker in assassin mafia and got the solo win by making a claim that every other player knew was false. I'll always be proud of that one, though it was more than 10 years ago.

Seven-Bessie-Wam in one section:
- I don't think it makes sense for town!Seven to gambit killing bessie, she didn't scumread her that much did she? Like I could see a universe in which I see someone as so scummy that I fake a result so people will listen to me and vote them, but this is not what Seven had for bessie. The closest I could see is if Seven had some other night result (e.g. saw bessie visit EGW) and wants to avoid claiming her real power.
- Wam as town would do what he did
- Wam, as scum protecting bessie, would not risk claiming Thea is VT when Thea could easily contradict that (nb: maybe scum does have this actual power, or a rolecop, and knows Thea is VT). However, it would have the same issue: if Seven flips town, then Wam flips scum, and Bessie will also be killed. This makes two scum for one town, which seems excessive. That said - wam is claiming that Seven is vanilla town, so isn't actually trying to get Seven voted out, just trying to save Bessie. So I should probably re-analyse that.

Speculation: perhaps there's a cop who sends results (there was one in B99), and Seven received a result.

Speculation: wam could be scum rolecop (is it bad that I love the little image in my head of scum!wam freaking out about a copped vanilla townie has a guilty result)

I'm trying to figure out the mechanically optimal vote out. I agree we want the elim with best odds. My brain is feeling very soupy now and I need to get some work done, but I hope to come back in 4-5 hours.

Readslist - now in order!
Townie:
Thea(behaviour, result)
Wam(claim)
Fred (vibes)

Neutral:
Seven (claim,result)
Moody* (other people's opinions)

Voteable:
Somi/Santy* (vibes, other people's opinions),
JC (vibes),
Bessie (result)

In order
(indicates where my read comes from)
*denotes people who were alts to a town wagon

I think Thea is solid town: scum!wam defending scum!bessie wouldn't dare put the last member of the scum team (there's no way they have 4 right?) as another town read.

Claims:
Seven - scum result on bessie
Wam - VT cop. VT result on Seven, Thea

Non-Vibes, Facts, Extra Firm Reads:
Mak - conftown, will sheep

Conditional reads: If Santy flips scum then Thea is almost certainly town (because if Thea was Santy's scummate he wouldn't try to specifically dig up this point), and Seven is a sliver more likely to be scum.

[Freddino18]

OK. Let’s see your justification for your current vote.

@Adum asking for a sub

Pressure getting to you?

Straight up just not having fun. If I don't want to write an essay, y'all can't make me.

[Freddino18]

@Adum: Officially retracting my request for a substitute.

[madge]

Fred, don't let 'em write you an essay. I just ignore 'em, bhave been doing it for years. Play in a way that'll make you have fun. To hell with being optimal. I know you're meant to play to your wincon and all but I ain't spending an hour every day doing reads to increase our odds of winning by 1%. The things that make me happy I do. The things that don't, I don't.

People are welcome to tell me that maybe mafia isn't my game and I should not bother them with my antics, but people seem to like having me around.

I like having you around, Fred. Don't let 'em get to you.

You don't have to write a readslist if you don't want to. I'm not convinced they are actually accurate most of the time. Like mine? Thea and Wam are probably town but that's not because I read them, it's because the results will only work out that way.

I read Heury as scum and I was wrong. So did most people here at some point. We gotta have humility.

Some people are like, really aggressive and that's just their personality. But that doesn't mean it's gotta be the way you go, and you can just tell 'em no. Tell 'em to get bent.

HEY GUYS, GET BENT. Fred's playing the Fred way, just like Madge plays the Madge way. Part of the game for your galaxy brains is to work out what the heck us smoothbrains are thinking.

Like seriously, this kind of demandingness and demands of activity and EFFORT are why it's hard to find new players. Sometimes I wonder why I bother. I accept that I'm not going to catch everything and just do it for as long as it's fun. I'm excited to spend some time working out how all the pieces fit together.

[madge]

man I would have felt like such a badass life coach if you had retracted your request AFTEr my pep talk, le sigh

[AdumbroDeus]

@Adum: Officially retracting my request for a substitute.

ok, also please bold, ping me, or DM with anything to the mod in the future.

[Seven]

Being susses sucks and is unfun but it's a part of the game.

[Seven]

sussed*

Madge Town Slip

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

for a setup, with 13 players i'd imagine we have a third party. given it's a mountainous game (is that the right term?), i'd expect 2-3 scum, but i am no expert scum balancer.

No, but thank you. I htought it was the opposite of role madness, where there's only a couple of power roles. (I could have looked that up too I guess but I didn't because as somi said you're all luccky to be playing with me )

@Seven: This bit.

Where did you get the information that the game is low PR?

I'm sure you'll figure it out, everyone else has apparently lol

From the perspective of Madge in the first quote:

There are two types of games: Normal Games (which Madge referred to as Mountainous) and Role Madness games. In the former, there are a majority of vanilla players and a few PRs. In the latter, every player has a PR.

Because Madge is not a PR, she knew we weren't in Role Madness and, therefore, in a Normal Game. I initially didn't see this as really telling as Thea did because I didn't initially understand the dichotomous perspective. In my mind, games were a gradient between Role Madness (All PRs) and Mountainous (No PRs) with any number of PRs in between.

I do think it is possible Madge knew we were in a Normal Game based on there being goons on the mafia team. However, I think it's not as likely as her simply being town due to the way she has spoken about it.

‎
Fred Town Slips

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

do mafia have daychat? it's probably in the rules which i did read ut didn't memorise.

The rules are a general ruleset with allowances for daychat but we don't even have a confirmation that there are actual scum.The rules are the vaguest on actual mechanics that I have ever seen. It's either that this game is entirely vanilla, or Adum is hiding a big stinker (wth is the name for one of those games?) (also I always phone it in until I do my in-depth analysis)

do mafia have daychat? it's probably in the rules which i did read ut didn't memorise.

Feels faked.

The rules seem to be intentionally ambiguous, this was a valid question. If there's no night elim, I have a theory about the gamerule.

The mafia faction always has a night kill.

Not always, there are some infection-type games.

The Fred town slips are stronger because he is newer to the game. The first game he played was atypical, so he doesn't really have the foundation behind Normal Games. Like Madge, he slipped being vanilla here. Additionally, he wasn't aware that there is a mafia team and was speculating that the Dancers were rather some sort of cult faction.

[Seven]

vote: Seven

because i am mad at Seven laughing at me at EoD like he did yesterday

(note: I will change it in like 5-10 minutes, this is not a serious vote)

I've been meaning to ask, why did you call me out here? I never laughed at you ;_;

I laugh because End of Day scrambles are thrilling and fun.