Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[Santygrass]

Assume Somi scum.

Cant do that . Do you have other reasons of why are you reading bessie/moody as scum (individual reads that doesnt preflip people) or will I have to lecture you?

I can infer it based on bessie's alignment and the opportunistic vote. I made a moody post near the end of D1.

Wagons were v-v yesterday, most likely is that scum didnt care at all. Vote wasnt forced or from what you say bessie wasnt hard pushing the yeet in any direction at all tbh. Like, how would you expect scum!bessie to act assuming Im town that you dont see in their play?
It only "makes sense" because you are assuming somi could be scum and is a 0 level save on a partner, but I dont think the case has much weight imo. Will look for the moody post later, but after D1 your read on them hasnt changed ? D2 they did a lot of analysis post if im recalling it correctly

[moody7277]

As was this:

As of now, heury is the only wagon I'm happy with.

Both were attempting to save somi. Bessie put heury at 4. Moody stated he wouldn't switch, keeping the wagon stable. They likely anticipated I would switch to her, my previously stated preferred elimination. Madge would be deciding vote who was following Mak who likely would have come on end of day supporting heury elim based on his prior appearance patterns and reads.

So it's such a sin that I should vote for who I'm reading as scummier? I had been reading huery and Fred as much scummier than somi, and JC about the same. I even suggested eliming Fred instead, but that got shot down. The only reason I might think of somi/Santy as lower than neutral is a suggestion made by Thea mid-D2 about somi's behavior vis a vis Glue (IIRC).

[Santygrass]

Going to elaborate on my view and gather some thoughts , hopefully I dont ramble too much haha~

D1 notes (Only did D1, by D2 I just wanted to read faster and already remembered people so It wasnt that necessary. Might reread D2 and do some notes since the dayphase is quite long regardless~

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

EGW is a dancer. It is unfair that I am able to read his alignment off of a single post (if you do not believe this, see AI mafia), so I will be stepping away for the remainder of the day in order to allow EGW to play the game and his team to gain a foothold.

This is Town Seven.

* From first pages from the day Allieliza felt the most natural to me and I like the early chart for sure. Not a fan of them scumreading my slot though. But lean town regardless


* Also willing to sheep EGW early read on Seven, regardless of EGW alignment here hmmyes. (This may be an excuse because I want to play with Seven and towning them would make things more fun to solve)

I'm Thea this game.

But I think this error comes from Town more often than not.

Can you elaborate on the error and why it is likely to come from town?

He is thinking of me as my alt.

My feeling is that this is the type of error more likely to come from a townie more concerned about keeping meta straight than caring about being precise.

* This just strikes me as a bad read / possible lazy excuse to townread someone IMO. So Allieza already losing points in my books
Bad read as in: A read made to look like you are solving but you are not putting nuance and towning what you think is a strong town (or a scummate, but idk if the reason would be so void if it were w-w)

* I like heuristically just boldingly doing a couple of +1 to some posts

No. She did this as third party scum before, Bessie pointed out that she was joking when I had a problem with her lack of follow up. Example below:

Interesting. This is useful to know.

oh my god read the context! Bessie told me on PAGE ONE that she didn't like my content. what psycopath thinks that this means ANYTHING? also like what, u think that because i thought something serious(????? was bessie possibly serious about my content on PAGE ONE not b eing good enough? knowing bessie PROBABLY because she has 5D chess but SERIOUSLY??? PAGE ONE???????? i dare you to find a g ame in HISTORY where i had good content on PAGE FREAKING ONE)

this is why i don't play mafia much, people misinterpret me because i am too much of a manic pixie dream girl for 'em

bessie - i know u love confirmation post analysis and u missed ONE important thing: not only do i get to talk about myself to an audience but i get to SAVE THE DAY by replacing in and start the game after 2 days of post-confirmation waiting. so i was excited to come in and save the day. which apparently m akes me scum, so whatever. i always get read scum. i'll try and do better this time, but it's off to a great start since i *c hecked notes* asked a genuine, non-joke question and *checks notes* was excited to play this game thing we are all playing for fun???????

yeah i don't take things personally, i take EVERYTHING personally, everything is about me, i think i could legit be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder except even though i have narcissistic feelings about myself i don't do any of the personality disorder stuff around being mean, which is prob for the best because being mean sucks and also getting d iagnosed with NPD, whooo boy, the stigma amirite?

do mafia have daychat? it's probably in the rules which i did read ut didn't memorise.

@MAK: no i mean cool calm and collective. it's a reference to Survivor 30: Blue Collar vs White Collar vs No Collar, Rodney LaVoie Jr used the phrase to describe himself. and it's vibes. i am telling you it's all vibes, Seven normally has a very imposing manner about them and this time it's slightly less imposing.

@heury: oh my god i got super addicted to slay the spire and then i found out you can install mods in steam so i got addicted to downfall and all the mods t hat add new cards and events, such a good game!!!!


ACTUAL GAME THOUGHTS THAT MATTER (everything else can prob be skipped):

i am confused about how anyone can get readings from somi and moody, i have forgotten about them already. Seven and bessie are both larger than life, but that doesn't mean they're town, just that they have impressions on things? a trap i find i fall into is town-reading high volume/highly logical players

as much as EGW sucks for voting for me, i don't actually want to keep my joke vote on much longer as i can see myself doing confirmation bias of why i think EGW is scummy scum, so i'll unvote to improve neutrality:

unvote EGW

for a setup, with 13 players i'd imagine we have a third party. given it's a mountainous game (is that the right term?), i'd expect 2-3 scum, but i am no expert scum balancer.

subjective vibes-based groupings of all players:

posting is noticeable, but this doesn't mean they're town: bessie, seven

don't even remember them posting: wam, gluelock, moody7277

middle of the road: makhaira, somitomi, EGW

seems to be phoning it in: heuri, madge, Theallieza, Freddino18, JC_DADDY25

I was going to rank people within the groupings but I think mak is the towniest middle person and Thea is the towniest phoning it in person (apart from me obviously, but i wanted to be honest about which group i belong in).

in general i on't want to vote off the "noticeable posters" group, because they'll have enough rope. i think the don't remember posting group is the most fertile ground for looking for voteoff candidates, because if i can't remember that they're posting then i'm not going to remember their scummy or twonie actions, and in a vacuum we want to get rid of people who are hard to vote off later. i say that as someone who is often kept until the end by scum because i am so bad at this game, it's an absolute pain if halfway through we're left with the "phoning it in" players because we have so little to go on. i remember in one game we were voting between 2 candidates and one had just kinda fallen off the map for several half Days so we had very, very little to go on.

i personally believe the D1 vote is a crapshoot so best to shoot those craps amongst the people we will be frustrated about not having enough information on later

* Okay this post feels far too loong and with an excessive reaction? Or maybe I was misreading the tone from before, but I dont like the defensiveness here and just the content feels too ¿bland? maybe hedgy is a better word. I felt like there was a lot of text which was just directionless here. Adds them to the scumlean pile


* EGW unvotes them for that same post so wowee . Maybe good to ask more about that

* Also proposing so early in the day to vote off lurkers to me is scummy in general, because its an easy excuse to not solve and pressure with your vote most of D1 , but it can be a playstyle difference here? shivers in not knowing meta

* BASED Gluelock voting Madge off this post tysm

IMO yeet wam or JC if they don't have something meaningful up in 24 hours, yeet JC over wam unless wam is obviously wack

moody and somi both feel weird and can probably go

heury glue and bessie are all kind of true null for me rn

I gut read madge's manicpost as town so light lean there, also similar gut read on freddy based on his early game play

seven and egw I just frankly need more from to be able to read and thea seems to be trying to solve and communicate legit reads I guess but none of them should be plays at this point for various nebulous reasons

* This is probably a scum-sided post/reads summary. Probably worth revisiting later . But would be willing to add Mak to scumleans as well
[This is revisiting Santy. Uhmmm maybe I was the one with skill issue, they were also nked after too haha]

* Allieza townreading both Madge and Mak... perhapds I townleaned them too son sigh

Mak - town
EGW - town
Thea - Town

Somi - lean town
Bessie - lean town
Huery - lean town

Moody - neutral
Madge - neutral
JC - neutral, lack of content

Egw - lean scum, weird vibes but can't put my finger on what is making me suspicious.
Fred - lean scum, again not sure why but something is pinging me


Madge scummy , but always is day 1.
Glue - scummy one line vote having been quiet doesn't show desire to solve.

Don't like seven going day 1 solved and being quiet

vote seven

Happy with seven or Glue.

* I really like this readlist. Not because I agree with much of it, but it feels like them having really independent thoughts? And I think scum wouldnt put both Gluelock and Madge at the bottom (Gluelock is voting Madge) , but then vote Seven, and also be scum leaning EGW.
From their thread position of being just not here on thread this is a bold and strong entrance reads-wise , while they tonally on thread are not matching that? So hard for me to see agenda there

* EGW scumreading both of Gluelock and wam.... wtf
Wait egw actually has a point wam put them in both town and scum wtfwtf SKILL ISSUE

* Okay I believe Wam reply of them progressing through the game and forgetting to erase the first entry. I would ask them for more details on that progression though just to be sure LMAO

* Yeah Egw questions are fair-ish~ But I feel entitled on my Wam read regardless and the elaboration is okay to me tbh. Chant with me Wam Town Wam Town

Gluelock and Wam are scum. I think people are latching on to the wrong thing to scumread Somi. I'd rather see his reads and his overall play. I'm neutral on Moody.

I am very suspicious of this. I feel like you are going for the most low-hanging fruit. Doesn't feel like a legit attempt at a solve to me.

Now I am going back to allieza on the towny side ehehe~

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73221#p73221
* Okay I really like most of the replies /prods form Mak here on this wall hmmm
(I dont like me going back and forth with the reads here Skill Issue go away)

* Weirded out a bit by EGW townreading seven being active early and not like, sideliney/not there like in their scumgame. And then when they are prodded about Seven falling off, they agree and say they seen Seven do that as town ¿?¿?¿?

* Bassie pfp is pocketing me with the cute doggo picture. Dont feel like I have a good enough reason to townread them, but with the insistence on the confirmation analysis and barks Im already townleaning them

* Still scumleaning Madge. They popped in again, and I felt like they solved almost nothing and just explained themselves / were comfy in their against lurkers agenda

* EGW townreading my slot (which would be a kinda lhf adjacent slot to push if egw is scum) can also be a slightly good look. Still dont vibe with the seven read progression
I like seven noticing this too. And the reply is more meta adjacent regarding scumhunting which is bleh, when Seven fell off they werent posting or scumhunting. If the reason to townread seven is because they were scumhunting early and just that.. then Seven must be really polarized lol, which I dont think should be the case? (I say the polarized stuff because is the vibe I get from EGW confidence on their seven read mostly. I lean more to it actually being a TMI read that comes from scum)

* Freddino gives a lot of innocent/naive/new town vibes just based on the stuff they ask and how they vibe. Would also lean town hmmyes

Gutfeels:
town: Mak, EGW
townlean: bessie, wam
suslean: Theallizea, Freddino
nothing unusual: moody, Heury
I can't read them: madge, Seven
N.A: Gluelock, JC_DADDY

Going to copypaste the readlist from the slot Im subbing in (somi). Always respect their reads hmmyes. Would sort Madge into suslean and seven into town Down Egw a bit , and put Freddino a bit up at least?

town: Mak, Seven
townlean: bessie, wam , EGW, Freddino
nothing unusual: moody, Heury , Gluelock, JC_DADDY
suslean: Theallizea, MADGE


HmmMMmMM. I´ll let this sink in for a bit and see how I feel about it after reading EoD


* Seems Seven and EGW are quick to vote my vote for doing the gutreads list huh . Seven I want to believe is town so stonks down for EGW still umu

But enough about me! If I keep talking about myself people will think I’m Madge Madge Madge!

Random thought at the top of page 12, I am suspicious of anyone voting for JC or Gluelock. If we need a compromise elimination, fine, we’ll get there, but that is something that should be discussed toward end of day. I am suspicious of anyone pushing a lurker early, and hiding behind it to avoid discussion of other players.

(two quotes from a bessie post)
* Hmmyes. I feel good now that I put bassie as town before ehehe

* Madge voted JC for being the most.. votable ? Am I confbiasing on the scumread here? Currently doubting if that maybe is TWTBAW or Im just not vibing with their playstyle here

* And Fred comes in and townreads the post hahahahaha whyyy It feels so trippy seeing Madge post gives me scum vibes and then people calling them town for that smh smh. I would mentally put madge as mixed and probably deal with that later if I have the chance

Human:
Bessie
Mak
EGW
Alli

Fred
JC
Wam
somi

Null:
Heury

Dancer:
Glue
Moody
Madge

The only issue I have with this solve is Moody's vote for Glue (I don't feel the same about Madge's). I'm fully OK with EGW at this point. Bessie was obv townie from the get-go in my view. Mak is the same as in PYP mafia. Alli is a potential blindspot. I was reading Laser's play in AI and his scum play is simply incredible and hard to distinguish. JC is JC. Fred is someone I consider to have extraordinary reads, but currently they are no good. I think that is probably because he thinks differently than most people (who takes 12 hours to analyze a game!?!?) and he was forced to make them prematurely.

Somi's last few posts were so wolfy that I think they are probably TWTBAW (Too Wolfy to Be A Wolf @Fred). As Alli said, somi does sometimes have off-games as town. I thought for sure he was scum in the game where bessie and I hydrad, and his play is like that here. (Pre-Edit: I see somi just posted, I haven't read that yet).

I was pressuring Wam because I do think that readlist mistake is something that needed to be held accountable, but I agree with the sentiment that he is more likely to make the mistake as town. I don't like that he gave up, and my initial speculation was that he may be trying to avoid spew (clearing townies or condemning scummates from one's interactions), but I think it's more likely that he is overwhelmed. He made the mistake of claiming Cop when he was a Doc (or maybe it was vice versa) in PYP mafia which led to his elimination, and he may have felt the same thing would occur here.

--

Glue is someone that I have been able to read fairly well and early from his content. I don't glean any sort of town motivation from his posts so far. They don't have the comprise the elements of someone who is attempting to solve, but rather of someone who needs to have an elimination pool.

I still think moody saying that bessie and Laser are tied together from bessie's confirmation analysis is not a natural town thought. And having a strong and continued town read on Fred from his RVS response is also hard to see as coming from town.

I think Alli is wrong here, and this is scum Madge. Madge does not care for Day 1 and believes the elimination to essentially be random. What scum Madge likes, however, is control. She is someone that I would consider to be a power wolf, in that she works out an endpoint and engineers the game to reach that point. Given these two things, it is less likely that town!Madge would vote for a Day 1 extension due to not being able to be around at EoD and more likely that scum!Madge would, in order to have some aspect of control.

Her response to Glue's vote and quick & correct interpretation of why he voted came off as too familiar. I think it is likely partner-indicative. If I had my way, I would be voting here today since I'm not certain how moody fits into this.

* Going to note this post to read later, probably. [Reading later santy here. I like the madge sus / reasoning, not a fan of the bottom 4 being 2/4 flipped town so far. The reasoning on somi seems to be a parrot of what EGW already said if Im not remembering incorrectly. But what strikes me the most is the Glue read/confidence they have. @Seven can you talk to me about your Gluelock read progression and what were the posts that pinged you as scummy from them? ]

* but tbh just reading the somi elaboration I like them going from the vote to circling back to a TWTBAW and towning my slot [Smh past santy dont contradict me. (Egg on my face if it was Seven who said it first and not EGW]

* Havent read carefully, but also like EGW flipping on madge and pairing Madge/Allie/Gluelock. If egw is town they might have cooked there (I say, as I havent read it still into detail and going off that only on vibes) [Still need to do that, since I think Madge/Allieza is likely a team in my head]

* Not a fan of the strenght in which Gluelock is being pushed (As in, I dont see a good case?) , and also taken aback Madge is not in favor of that and calling Gluelock towny (reading skill issue I must have missed that). Food for thought but I think is kinda a good look for madge (I say bedrugingly)

* bessie voting fred on EoD is so thread unaware Lmao. I disagree with the vote but feels town-ish~ (editado)

* I have no read almost on both glue and moody as Im reading and they are both the lead wagons not feeling so good (and I dont get also people townreading Gluelock lmao)

Hard no on Fred.

I'm not asking for your approval. I'm voting for my strongest scum read.

OKAY BASED AND TOWN

* I would be kinda surprised if all of Gluelock-Heury-JC-Moody are town with how the ball has been switching between wagons D1 . The most wolf shaped I would say is JC (is the one that is being talked about in the sameish level as the others, but receiving less votes and traction from my pov)

* lmao on the required hammer to vote, those last switchs were kinda funny and Im already seeing myself go crazy in EoD too

* Didnt expect Mak to be the n1 huh. Also stumping is cool

Wam : Pretty confident on Wam being town. Their entrance to the game was one of the townier post that striked me when reading up, just from a perspective approach, I dont see scum having those reads / nuance that were spicy and not doing much with them. And the more I think about it the repeated names are always more likely to come from a town that had a process and switched reads rather than a scum that legit can fake a perspective or doesnt proofread their own list and have 2 mistakes and is not able to fake and care about how their reads are being perceived (which is something always more important to scum rather than town). So yeah Wam is my most confident town and I'll fight for them if needed

Seven : I have been agreein with most of their post while I was catching up and so I feel comfy with them in town and trying to boost their perspective. Dont think as scum they need to be this insistent / blatant with the people they scumread , EGW had an adjacent read to this and was quite confident on Seven being town too, so willing to sheep aswell even though I want to shake them a lil bit. Also not a big fan of the people voting them / putting them as sus so def think mafia is trying to push seven here

Freddino18 : Innocent town. I think they also townslipped something from their role (now going to point at it). But basically Fred feels like someone not much experienced playing with their card kinda visible to me. I do not understand Bessie or moody sus here to be honest. It wouldn't be the first time Im snowed by someone not much experienced having a really good tone, but I will need some good reason to change my townread here

moody7277 : I feel like this is kind of a blindspot to me, since I think their biggest posts were analysis walls that I havent read into detail. I have it noted them as one of the EoD1 wagons/people shifting that I think contains mafia, but other than that kinda lost and need to get a better read here

Bessie : Towning them before start of the day, still think they have good towny post, but didnt like their entrance today + Seven seems to have confidence on them being scum so Im putting them down. The EoD1 I still was mighty villagey though, but the reply to Seven today and the realtime was very wolf-shaped to me

Madge : Oh wowee sweet lord. Their post were the most pingy to me, D1 specially I thought they were the scummiest player, since they talked a lot but other than the easy kill the lurkers their reads didnt have much nuance or direction. Quite a comfy position for scum. I would say that their only post today was *good* imo, probably the most sane of what I was reading haha

Theallieza : Been going back and forth with them the most out of the players in my catch up. Started towning their entrance, to then not vibing with their reads and direction most of D1, to then towning them a lot for the EGW/Seven case (I was lowkey suspecting EGW), but after the egw claim, the reassesing just wasnt there, and felt like someone trying to make the pieces fit rather than take the new information and solve, so it striked me as very agenday overall (also bias because Im townreading seven, so it was a case just sussing 3 town, super powerwolfey vibe)

JC_DADDY25 : I have no reason to townread this like, at all? EoD1 I still think they were the most wolfey based on gamestate vibes and how wagons were shifting but them not much explored, and still feel they havent been put in the spotlight. The read today feel too confident and too lazy without any elaboration. Hopefully JC can come and slap some sense into me if Im wrong though!

[Santygrass]

In the spoiler might be hard to find, so going to repeat the question here.
@Seven can you talk to me about your Gluelock read progression and what were the posts that pinged you as scummy from them?

[Seven]

@Madge @Wam I don't have anything further I wish to claim (yes, I'm aware this just makes it further look like I'm gambiting). But Wam, you of all people know that I'm good.

Your also lying and whilst I don't always agree with it a lot of people have a elim all liers policy.

btw I would say such people poopy heads. Never once has me lying led to a negative outcome.

In Necromancer Mafia, I fake claimed a n0 guilty on a player, despite there not being a n0. I convinced town anyway, causing us to elim cult leader and winning on d1.

In Hellville, I identified cop and their crumbed results, and used their results to fake claim at the end of the day to avoid being yeeted and causing mafia to kill vanilla me.

In Midnight Ops I was mason but claimed and retracted another role, causing players to think I was vanilla. This caused a reaction that identified mafia and led to their elimination, and allowed me and my mason partner to survive until late game.

In Token Power I fake claimed Tracker to a player I was scum reading in my neighborhood, anticipating that he would tell his partner, who would then claim it before me, allowing me to ID them.

In Sorcerer's 11 I fake claimed a cop guilty on town read player causing them to concede and be eliminated. Note: bessie read that game and believes that is what I am doing here. I'm not and I'm not a cop.

In Brooklyn 99 I claimed Bulletproof because I was a doctor with a NK not having gone through, allowing me to live until late in the game while being able to protect the player who was targeted.

This started out as an argument against Elim All Liars, but just ended up being about how awesome I am.

[Seven]

As was this:

As of now, heury is the only wagon I'm happy with.

Both were attempting to save somi. Bessie put heury at 4. Moody stated he wouldn't switch, keeping the wagon stable. They likely anticipated I would switch to her, my previously stated preferred elimination. Madge would be deciding vote who was following Mak who likely would have come on end of day supporting heury elim based on his prior appearance patterns and reads.

So it's such a sin that I should vote for who I'm reading as scummier? I had been reading huery and Fred as much scummier than somi, and JC about the same. I even suggested eliming Fred instead, but that got shot down. The only reason I might think of somi/Santy as lower than neutral is a suggestion made by Thea mid-D2 about somi's behavior vis a vis Glue (IIRC).

You were willing to compromise to secure an elim D1, so yes. There's only one difference between the two scenarios: D1 was T v T, D2 was T v M wagons.

[Santygrass]

Weird flex but okay

[Santygrass]

Right now the only other slot I'd be as happy to elim as Glue who currently has votes is JC.

Isnt this almost the same as the post you quoted from D2 Seven? lol

[Seven]

-snip-

For the record, George's ended up changing his read on me. He left a legacy that I am scum and was dead set on you and me being partners. I'm going back to sleep but will read the spoiled part of the post and answer your question later.

[Seven]

Right now the only other slot I'd be as happy to elim as Glue who currently has votes is JC.

Isnt this almost the same as the post you quoted from D2 Seven? lol

No.

[Santygrass]

-snip-

For the record, George's ended up changing his read on me. He left a legacy that I am scum and was dead set on you and me being partners. I'm going back to sleep but will read the spoiled part of the post and answer your question later.

Oh well yeah. Call me a psychic but I have outsider knowledge that EGW was wrong on their final read :wowee:

I have dnd session soon-ish so I will be also away from the thread for a while.

[Wam]

So Seven is lying town. I'm a VT cop, N1 seven came up as vt. Night 2 Thea, came up as vt.

So.thats a town core of 3 which should be enough!

[moody7277]

I don't know what's worse, Seven just keeps doing that, or that it works just often enough that Seven feels justified doing it.

[Seven]

So Seven is lying town. I'm a VT cop, N1 seven came up as vt. Night 2 Thea, came up as vt.

So.thats a town core of 3 which should be enough!

You didn't need to claim with inno only results. And no I'm still not lying.

[Seven]

Also are you a vanilla cop or a vanilla town cop?

[Seven]

I don't know what's worse, Seven just keeps doing that, or that it works just often enough that Seven feels justified doing it.

[Santygrass]

So Seven is lying town. I'm a VT cop, N1 seven came up as vt. Night 2 Thea, came up as vt.

So.thats a town core of 3 which should be enough!

You didn't need to claim with inno only results. And no I'm still not lying.

So are you vanilla that is able to get alignment results. Thats a new type of vanilla!!! /s

[Wam]

Also are you a vanilla cop or a vanilla town cop?

Vanilla town cop

[Wam]

And I had to claim as I think your wrong on Bessie which throws the whole game.

[Santygrass]

Anyways i feel vindicated with Wam as my most confident town lets go

[Seven]

So Seven is lying town. I'm a VT cop, N1 seven came up as vt. Night 2 Thea, came up as vt.

So.thats a town core of 3 which should be enough!

You didn't need to claim with inno only results. And no I'm still not lying.

So are you vanilla that is able to get alignment results. Thats a new type of vanilla!!! /s

Yes.

[Seven]

And I had to claim as I think your wrong on Bessie which throws the whole game.

Who do you think is mafia, you seemed to have a solve before.

[moody7277]

While we sort wam's solve out, I'll put down my marker

Vote: Fred

[Santygrass]

Unvote
Vote : JC

[Seven]

And I had to claim as I think your wrong on Bessie which throws the whole game.

Who do you think is mafia, you seemed to have a solve before.

And why Thea of all people?