Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[Freddino18]

@Thea, do you mind posting a spoilered list of all the quotes from Somi that you find scummy? I literally have nothing on them.

[heuristically_alone]

Here's my deed dive read of Heury. Reading through this, my scumdar is not pinged at all. Through out all his posts, I find his tone townie, not like when I last seen him as scum, where he was opportunistic. However, there is one post that always seems odd to me, it sticks out like a sore thumb: Post. Seems odd he'd choose JC at such a crunch time, and barely even posted again. So I'll leave him at null-town.

Heury Lazy Context

i am too much of a manic pixie dream girl for 'em

This is an incredibly accurate description of Madge

I might be missing something but I don't see the claim

Claiming no soul. Now the question.... Do dancer have soul?

I don't think I've ever been so absent minded that a game exists such as this one.

I don't think lurking is particularly alignment indicative for Heury. I've seen him vanish strategically (with stellar results mind you), but I also recall him just dipping for a bit and this doesn't strike me as the former.

I only wish it was ever strategic

I'm more interested in content equity than post size.

Yes you do

As before I associate lurking huery with scum huery.

100% agree. Though this game I haven't even been lurking.

Readsssssssss

Human
EGW
Somi
Heury
Madge
Freddino

Human or Dancer
Makhaira
Wam
Gluelock
Seven
moody
JC

Dancer (yes I'm making it about me me me)
Bessie- buddying me quite a bit this game, moreso than I recall before.
Thea- fundamentally disagree with read on me

When is deadline?

*ebwop

Gluelock is too willing to be voted for inactivity, so slight town lean

Why do you have yourself only 3rd on human side?



When was bessie buddying you?



How so?

It is factually incorrect.

I am reading others as more human than myself.

There's text from Bessie that feels from her just for me. I tend to town read Bessie immediately, so feels like expecting/wanting me to town read her this game. Though now that I think about it, town Bessie would want that too.

Thea at least twice has emphasized how we should expect their tone to be different as this account that other account, thus insistent that we don't scum them based off of being different that perceived town meta.

*ebwop

Gluelock is too willing to be voted for inactivity, so slight town lean

Why do you have yourself only 3rd on human side?



When was bessie buddying you?



How so?

It is factually incorrect.

I am reading others as more human than myself.

There's text from Bessie that feels from her just for me. I tend to town read Bessie immediately, so feels like expecting/wanting me to town read her this game. Though now that I think about it, town Bessie would want that too.

Thea at least twice has emphasized how we should expect their tone to be different as this account that other account, thus insistent that we don't scum them based off of being different that perceived town meta.

Today willing to vote mak, moody or JC in no particular order. maybe wam if you pull my finger but town wam is so useful late game.

I'm actually leaning on JC for my vote
VOTE:JC

Madge care to join?

JC choice was based off of Thea's reads and my null reads. Moody was their scum read, followed by Somi who was my town read, followed by JC as a bill read. So I thought JC could be a scum partner if Thea is scum.

[Theallieza]

@Thea, do you mind posting a spoilered list of all the quotes from Somi that you find scummy? I literally have nothing on them.

This series of posts are regarding somi incorrecting stating that Seven EGW were scumreading each other at the start of D1, and Mak questioning him on it. In my big post I have a bunch of related posts related to EGW's reaction to this that are also worth a look.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

I see Seven and EGW are already scumreading each other and bessie's got a confirmation-soul read, everything is right on schedule

Performative? The vibe I get is kind of "Look, I'm active and engaged" without actually saying anything.

Gosh, sorry my throwaway line about people doing their usual stuff wasn't worded accurately enough

but they werent scumreading each other, seven scumread EGW and EGW townread seven for it. how did you misunderstand this?

It was a quick throwaway line about Seven and EGW debating each other already like they usually do, I just chose the wrong word because I wasn't paying too much attention.

Why weren't you paying too much attention? If you're trying to solve shouldn't you be paying attention to the specific reads different slots have on each other? Or do you not care what others think much this early in the game because it doesn't affect you existentially and you already know everyone's alignment and derivatively who's reads are right and wrong already?

It was page two, it takes a bit for my mind to spin up to mafia-RPM

These posts deal specifically with how somi interacted with Gluelock.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Somi, can you give a full reads list.

Not really, I'm having trouble even remembering everyone in the game.

Gutfeels:
town: Mak, EGW
townlean: bessie, wam
suslean: Theallizea, Freddino
nothing unusual: moody, Heury
I can't read them: madge, Seven
N.A: Gluelock, JC_DADDY

The pivot I was expecting.

In fact this little interaction between EGW and Wam read as possible pairing to me.

I revoke my earlier willingness to vote Gluelock, let the guy catch up.

EGW
bessie
Mak

Seven
madge
Theallizea
wam
fred

JC_Daddy
moody
Heury
Gluelock

I keep getting nowhere

Just FYI, Gluelock did not post between the above two quotes.

Somi, join me and vote Gluelock.

Fine, I don't have any better ideas...

Vote: Gluelock

Gluelock also did not post between this and the other two.

Also note somi's stance on lurker eliminations:

Please don't. A lurker flip this early gives us absolutely no information because when we go look at who they talked to what they said it's just "oh, nobody and nothing" and then D2 ends up being D1 the second part. Especially if they flip town, which in my experience is likelier to happen than not. I'd much rather elim someone who's actually done something and then deal with lurkers later, when there are at least some votes from them to scrutinise, so we're not just shooting people randomly for being too quiet.

Lurkers can be a liability in endgame sure, I'm not saying never eliminate low activity players, I'm just saying getting information early in the game is valuable so we should do our best to find someone actually suspicious today and not just roll the dice that one of the lurkers turns out to be scum. Those can be PoE-d later using information we get if we correctly identify the "point scum" as you called it and even if we miselim, the wagons and the discussion around that woudl have more information than "yeah, let's all elim the guy who hasn't said anything".

Somi not commenting at all on Seven and EGW snap voting him and then dropping the read a few pages later is also very strange to me. This seems like it was a red flag that he completely ignored.

[EGW]

Tree stump on you is an odd choice but I guess you're around and confirmed so hopefully that counts for something. I'd suggest we find you a proxy vote. I would suggest somitomi. Any townies who aren't sure where to vote would do well to follow Mak's suggestions.

Can you elaborate on the underlined, why Somi there? Somi also asked you and you didn't answer.

[Theallieza]

Tree stump on you is an odd choice but I guess you're around and confirmed so hopefully that counts for something. I'd suggest we find you a proxy vote. I would suggest somitomi. Any townies who aren't sure where to vote would do well to follow Mak's suggestions.

Can you elaborate on the underlined, why Somi there? Somi also asked you and you didn't answer.

Obviously because I think he is scum and I think that his vote should be controlled by Town.

[heuristically_alone]

I am interpreting correctly that Thea is scum reading EGW for being too confident in his reads?

[Theallieza]

I am interpreting correctly that Thea is scum reading EGW for being too confident in his reads?

I am scumreading him for a lot of reasons. See here.

[EGW]

How about you put that all in one sentence.

[Theallieza]

Because I like to be precise in my language and explain my thoughts clearly. Trying to distill a detailed argument into a single sentence will invariably lose a lot of the context and nuance and lead to people misinterpreting or strawmanning me. And because my reads on you, somitomi, and Seven are interlocking, and trying to point to one while ignoring the others will lose key pieces of information that connect the scum team.

[EGW]

So what you're saying is your case would be weaker and the whole of it is an association based case without any scum flips before hand.

[Theallieza]

Trying to distill a detailed argument into a single sentence will invariably lose a lot of the context and nuance and lead to people misinterpreting or strawmanning me.

Thank you for so excellently proving me point.

[EGW]

I think if you aren't able to look at my slot individually then the whole scum team case falls apart. Weak individual parts makes the whole weak. I think you don't want to look at my slot individually because you can't.

[EGW]

Also, I'm totally fine with today being between myself and Thea. I think there is a dichotomy here, one of us must be scum. That's why I believe I wasn't killed in the night. I think Thea's progression towards scum reading me is ultimately forced.

[Theallieza]

I think if you aren't able to look at my slot individually then the whole scum team case falls apart. Weak individual parts makes the whole weak. I think you don't want to look at my slot individually because you can't.

Mafia teams are more than the sum of their parts. And I have looked at your slot and provided my evaluation of you. We have already discussed it on the previous page and I have answered your questions about it.

Also, this comment is very funny in the context of this and this.

If you are Town, you are probably better off figuring out where the actual scum team is and giving us your solve. I'm not moving from my position any time soon.

[EGW]

If you are Town, you are probably better off figuring out where the actual scum team is and giving us your solve. I'm not moving from my position any time soon.

I'm waiting on others to see how they react to Thea v EGW before I do that. I'm waiting so I can develop my reads naturally.

[EGW]

I'll be playing some FF14 now. I expect others to provide input.

[Theallieza]

These posts deal specifically with how somi interacted with Gluelock.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Somi, can you give a full reads list.

Not really, I'm having trouble even remembering everyone in the game.

Gutfeels:
town: Mak, EGW
townlean: bessie, wam
suslean: Theallizea, Freddino
nothing unusual: moody, Heury
I can't read them: madge, Seven
N.A: Gluelock, JC_DADDY

The pivot I was expecting.

In fact this little interaction between EGW and Wam read as possible pairing to me.

I revoke my earlier willingness to vote Gluelock, let the guy catch up.

EGW
bessie
Mak

Seven
madge
Theallizea
wam
fred

JC_Daddy
moody
Heury
Gluelock

I keep getting nowhere

Just FYI, Gluelock did not post between the above two quotes.

Somi, join me and vote Gluelock.

Fine, I don't have any better ideas...

Vote: Gluelock

Gluelock also did not post between this and the other two.

Also note somi's stance on lurker eliminations:

Please don't. A lurker flip this early gives us absolutely no information because when we go look at who they talked to what they said it's just "oh, nobody and nothing" and then D2 ends up being D1 the second part. Especially if they flip town, which in my experience is likelier to happen than not. I'd much rather elim someone who's actually done something and then deal with lurkers later, when there are at least some votes from them to scrutinise, so we're not just shooting people randomly for being too quiet.

Lurkers can be a liability in endgame sure, I'm not saying never eliminate low activity players, I'm just saying getting information early in the game is valuable so we should do our best to find someone actually suspicious today and not just roll the dice that one of the lurkers turns out to be scum. Those can be PoE-d later using information we get if we correctly identify the "point scum" as you called it and even if we miselim, the wagons and the discussion around that woudl have more information than "yeah, let's all elim the guy who hasn't said anything".

Somi not commenting at all on Seven and EGW snap voting him and then dropping the read a few pages later is also very strange to me. This seems like it was a red flag that he completely ignored.

@Somitomi, I would like you to respond to this.

[moody7277]

Thank you Fred, that is actually helpful. Interesting that you have 2/3rds of Thea's solve, and depending on how you interpret fluffiness with somi you might get the third (although I doubt it could get somi below -13). As promised

Unvote

Because I like to be precise in my language and explain my thoughts clearly. Trying to distill a detailed argument into a single sentence will invariably lose a lot of the context and nuance and lead to people misinterpreting or strawmanning me. And because my reads on [EGW], somitomi, and Seven are interlocking, and trying to point to one while ignoring the others will lose key pieces of information that connect the scum team.

Bold mine. I think of looking for connections between players as a second-order level after getting individual reads. The fact your solve already includes that is an indication of confidence.

vote: heury

[Seven]

The scumteam is exactly EGW, Seven, and Somitomi.
I am reasonably confident in everyone else being Town.

I haven’t ready the rest of your post yet but this gave the user of this account a chuckle.

[bessie]

Daily bark!

Ok the daily bark isn’t happening yet. I’ve been trying to read today’s content and the forum keeps locking up on me.


I need to go out for a few hours I’ll try to post something when I get back.

This is where I am at:

Anyone else ready to end the day?

What's the hurry??

[heuristically_alone]

vote: heury

[heuristically_alone]

EGW vs Thea
Some real good popcorn content. I only recall seeing one game with scum EGW and that entire game there was a tangible plan with goals, tunnelling in on his choice mislynches.Thea on the other has some plan involving intertwining potential scum candidates and I'm incredibly wary of anyone trying to force a plan on anyhow as opposed to each player making their own decisions.

[moody7277]

Madge

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

post 1: confused about title reference
post 2: RV EGW
post 3: likes Bessie
post 4: doesn't know music
post 5: also likes Seven, scummy read on EGW
post 6: fuming over Thea's response to her v Bessie, somi and me invisible, question about scum daychat (which not being bolded looks rhetorical), reads based on impression of posts, unvotes
post 7: about reads in post 6
post 8: disagreement with somi, doesn't like majority elim rule
post 9: about EOD deadline
post 10: couple of pokes at me and Seven, wants to elim lurkers due to fun

Seems to contradict when she says in post 8 that she didn't have fun choosing between two lurkers, but that may just be the glory that is Madge

post 11: trying to explain the seeming contradiction, comes down on the side of lurker elim

Reasonable, and fits within her "play for fun" paradigm

post 12: reference back to the daychat question, nervous about coordination, wam scummy due to his response to it, votes Glue and extension
post 13: reads with Fred townie, JC, heury scummy, votes JC
post 14: debates somi over lurker elim, says would rather vote for obv scum, would rather have high content at ELO, Glue and Mak also townie, mostly same reads
post 15: scum reading people who vote for her is humor, firm no on Glue elim
post 16: trying to steer elim away from Glue.

EOD rush starts here
post 17: wants counterwagon on me or JC
post 18: still interested in JC elim, response to Seven about setup spec
post 19: confused about AtE
post 20: small attempt to be NK
post 21: found out about AtE, and was right about it
post 22: still interested in me as counterwagon
post 23: votes me, but would vote Glue to prevent no-elim
post 24: about Bessie voting Fred
post 25: switches to heury
post 26: about Glue's votal
post 27: another complaint about majority elim
post 28: informal vote count
post 29: edit
post 30: poke at Seven
post 31: poke at Seven and EGW
post 32: informal vote count
post 33: frustration about vote switching
post 34: possible move to Glue
post 35: not happy about Glue elim
post 36: no JC elim
post 37: switches to Glue
post 38: then switches back to heury

It was this pair of posts that caused my hair pulling reaction. Everything else to here seemed reasonable, and I figured I might have owed Madge an apology (still might, but we'll see down the road)

post 39: asks about hammer
post 40: switches to Glue (may have been after time)
post 41: hopes someone was hammered
post 42: grumbling
post 43: really wants hammer

D2
post 44: willing to proxy Mak
post 45: dismissive of others' opinions on her EOD behavior
post 46: happy to have more than her sheep Mak

Overall content is good, her EOD stuff was less egregious than my immediate impression made it out to be. Rating +0.5

Also, I'm not sure if heury's being sarcastic with the eye take about me voting for my scummiest read so far.

[moody7277]

somi

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

post 1: early game unfolding as expected, RV Seven
post 2: question about Thea's chart, couple questions to Mak, asks Thea about their edge case, asks Fred about his RP post

Definitely living up to the Daria avatar in this post

post 3: fluff
post 4: confused by some of heury's posts, unvotes, against lurker elims
post 5: asking Glue about his vote, says he's read the whole thread, corrects comment about 7 v EGW reads
post 6: says heury is overthinking Bessie's "soul-read" comment

Dangerous territory this, but based on somi's points at heury I'd say he was reading him as scummy at this point

post 7: ick at Thea's vote on me, ick at wam's reads list, Madge's question about daychat NAI, debate with Mak over the lurker issue
post 8: oops with Seven for not being at 100% keeping track of thread, can't give further explanation for his response to EGW comment
post 9: about Thea being an alt account to change meta
post 10: votes extension, light reads with Mak, EGW town, Thea, Fred leaning scummy (and heury as neutral )
post 11: reply to EGW that reads were gut related, votes Fred, would vote Glue to prevent no-elim
post 12: asks me about my votables, Glue moved to not votable, continues debate with Madge over lurker elim, hoping they might eventually make content, heury lurking NAI, questions Thea on their read of Fred
post 13: accepts answer by Thea on Fred, unvotes, debate with Madge on lurkers, not convinced by her scenario, thinks JC is ahead of heury on posts, asks Bessie about setup, T->S list with EGW, Bessie, Mak on top, heury and Glue on bottom

Had declared he would not vote for Glue despite this read, but he did say it was for want of content reasons, likely related to the debate with Madge he's having

post 14: edit about relative posting counts for heury and JC
post 15: goes along with EGW to vote Glue in a resigned tone

Cynical View is not happy with the flip-flop here. Wasn't on for EOD chaos since that happened about 4am where he lives.

D2
post 16: wants to know why Thea would suggest him to proxy Mak, confused by heury

Reasonable range of interactions. His impression of Glue, wanted more content enough to declare he wouldn't vote for him, but was scum reading him strongly enough to actually vote at the end, seems a very fine line to walk. Rating +0.5

[Freddino18]

Of this, only four things ping me, and I believe I should be lower on your list for similar reasons to what you state for somi