Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[Seven]

I'm surprised you say that.

I'm more interested in content equity than post size.

[Seven]

@Wam is there a reason you are being flippant/sarcastic this game? It started before you were ever a wagon consideration when EGW initially pointed out the mistake in your read list. Is it a playstyle choice or a result of irl stressors?

[Wam]

@seven

It's not a deliberate choice. Think it's a reaction to not having as much time as normal.

Which reminds me I'm VLA Friday eve to Sunday.

[EGW]

@Seven: Mostly was trying to prevent from Fred flooding the thread basically. Thankfully he's done now it seems.

[Freddino18]

I'll do it again out of spite

[Theallieza]

IMO yeet wam or JC if they don't have something meaningful up in 24 hours, yeet JC over wam unless wam is obviously wack

moody and somi both feel weird and can probably go

heury glue and bessie are all kind of true null for me rn

I gut read madge's manicpost as town so light lean there, also similar gut read on freddy based on his early game play

seven and egw I just frankly need more from to be able to read and thea seems to be trying to solve and communicate legit reads I guess but none of them should be plays at this point for various nebulous reasons

For those wondering, this post was what turned me towards assuming Mak is scum. They’re trying to establish a narrative and it just don’t feel genuine to me.

Can you explain what you mean by this? What sort of narrative do you feel Mak is trying to establish?

[Theallieza]

So help me out then, if you think you have a strong reason to believe Somi is scum (or Town), I would love to hear it.

I felt he might have been town for being more active than I have seen him in his scum game, however I read Baldur's gate mafia and compared it to this game and it doesn't feel the same. For example he had a weak town ping on Heury and defended him hard which annoyed me, and things like that are lacking here in this game. Stronger positions are lacking from him. I also thought it odd he didn't really mention Wam much at all, who he townleans. (He did mention he wasn't sure what to think about the reads list, and that was it) Compare that to Baldur's gate mafia, and he argued with me persistently about Heury. Let's look at this:

Compare this:

On reread I realised that vote is Heury's first post, so why is that not an RVS vote in your mind? I personally have Heury in the nulltown category so far, nothing really stands out either way. Heury has been eliminated on D1 before for his posts being weird but in my experience that's just as likely to come from town!heury

I disagree about Heury's vote not being basically RVS,it's just part of enthusiastically agreeing to my proposal (which was intened more as early game banter than any serious alliance by the way) rather than any indication of Heury's read on bessie. I do see where you're coming from and why you wanted to question it though and the resulting discussion helped me sort you into the townish pile.

To this:

Not sure what to make of wam's list, EGW is there twice but Seven isn't anywhere

Sure, there's a difference. But he also argued with you quite a bit about his read of Seven in Hallowe'en, (e.g. here and here), where he was mafia. I'm sure I could find you examples of town games where he was overwhelmed and barely present. Not saying you're wrong, just that I have played with him enough to know that his playstyle can vary a lot based on his IRL availability, which also makes him more difficult to read. I'm happy with a small scumlean on him for the present but don't see myself moving much beyond that at this point.

[Theallieza]

Extension is nice in the sense I won't be groggy next day at work after staying up until 11pm, and hopefully we can get some more from JC as well as Gluelock.

Non-votables: Bessie, EGW, Fred, Mak, somi

Votables: Glue, heury, JC(depending on further content)

People not listed I would possibly switch to for the purpose of majority elim.

What changed about your reads of me and Seven?

Why is somi Town?

[Theallieza]

Not quite I think Thealliza was thumbing her nose at me but close enough.

I was going for more of a smile and wave, honestly.

[Theallieza]

By popular demand I have dug out the coloured plot.



Gluelock seems to be making a decent attempt at catchup. No strong pings from them yet. JC is here but so far has not produced any content that I find useful, though IIRC this is not necessarily alignment indicative. Everyone to the right of Wam I'd consider votable.

[Theallieza]

Unofficial VC:
heuristically_alone - 1: Wam
Gluelock - 1: Moody7277
Seven - 1: Freddino
somitomi - 2: Seven, EGW
Freddino18 - 1: Somitomi
moody7277 - 2: Theallieza, Makhaira
JC_DADDY25 - 1: Madge

Not voting: Bessie, JC_Daddy, Heury, Gluelock

[Freddino18]

Hopefully we at least see bessie vote by end of day.

[Theallieza]

I would be very surprised if she doesn't.

[Seven]

By popular demand I have dug out the coloured plot.



Gluelock seems to be making a decent attempt at catchup. No strong pings from them yet. JC is here but so far has not produced any content that I find useful, though IIRC this is not necessarily alignment indicative. Everyone to the right of Wam I'd consider votable.

So the usual suspects

[Seven]

Vote: Moody

I've settled. Everyone who would like to participate in a Dancer elimination, if you vote for Moody, you will succeed.

[Seven]

ok, reads list: Somi, Mak, Thea, and madge good; Seven and bessie bad (I really don't know why on bessie, you asked for gut and this is what is happening). EGW(-) and glue(=) are fine; need more content from Heury(-), Wam(=), moody(-), and JC(+) (Wam and JC promised more, this is good).

The math symbols indicate lean on the people I am undecided on.

Unvote, vote Seven

Ignore your reads for today, join me on moody, and base your read on me by his flip.

[Seven]

It's taking me a bit to catch up, watching a TV show with my wife at the same time and it's a kdrama, so I have to read the screen to keep up with what's being said there as well.

Getting there though.

I could use your vote on moody.

[somitomi]

Votables: Glue, heury, JC(depending on further content)

Can you talk about the reason these three made the votables?

The pivot I was expecting.

In fact this little interaction between EGW and Wam read as possible pairing to me.

I revoke my earlier willingness to vote Gluelock, let the guy catch up.

1. Not at all I think you’re a master at it. I just don’t think that was your goal here.
2. Dislike.

To clarify, do you think I had some other goal or that I didn't do it on purpose?

on power wolfing: i agree it exists, i'm not saying scum only ever lurks, just that if scum power wolves (e.g. Seven in literally any game), they are posting enough to have takes and opinions and those can be examined for consistency/links with identified scum. someone with a less decisive style (e.g. me in literally any game) can be hard to pin down in terms of what their actual motivations are.

To me it seems kinda backward to try and pick off the mafiosi who are much harder to identify on D1 instead of the ones who already have enough content to analyse. Again, I'm not saying we should never elim lurkers, I'm just saying D1 seems like a suboptimal time to do it.

As before I associate lurking huery with scum huery.

Now I need to think of another I do this as town and this as scum just to make beasie happy.

I don't think lurking is particularly alignment indicative for Heury. I've seen him vanish strategically (with stellar results mind you), but I also recall him just dipping for a bit and this doesn't strike me as the former.

By popular demand I have dug out the coloured plot.



Gluelock seems to be making a decent attempt at catchup. No strong pings from them yet. JC is here but so far has not produced any content that I find useful, though IIRC this is not necessarily alignment indicative. Everyone to the right of Wam I'd consider votable.

Yay!
But also why is Fred so high?

So the usual suspects

Yeah, that is making me uneasy and not because I'm among them.

Vote: Moody

I've settled. Everyone who would like to participate in a Dancer elimination, if you vote for Moody, you will succeed.

Now that's the Seven I know

[Freddino18]

But also why is Fred so high?

[Seven]

Human:
Bessie
Mak
EGW
Alli

Fred
JC
Wam
somi

Null:
Heury

Dancer:
Glue
Moody
Madge

The only issue I have with this solve is Moody's vote for Glue (I don't feel the same about Madge's). I'm fully OK with EGW at this point. Bessie was obv townie from the get-go in my view. Mak is the same as in PYP mafia. Alli is a potential blindspot. I was reading Laser's play in AI and his scum play is simply incredible and hard to distinguish. JC is JC. Fred is someone I consider to have extraordinary reads, but currently they are no good. I think that is probably because he thinks differently than most people (who takes 12 hours to analyze a game!?!?) and he was forced to make them prematurely.

Somi's last few posts were so wolfy that I think they are probably TWTBAW (Too Wolfy to Be A Wolf @Fred). As Alli said, somi does sometimes have off-games as town. I thought for sure he was scum in the game where bessie and I hydrad, and his play is like that here. (Pre-Edit: I see somi just posted, I haven't read that yet).

I was pressuring Wam because I do think that readlist mistake is something that needed to be held accountable, but I agree with the sentiment that he is more likely to make the mistake as town. I don't like that he gave up, and my initial speculation was that he may be trying to avoid spew (clearing townies or condemning scummates from one's interactions), but I think it's more likely that he is overwhelmed. He made the mistake of claiming Cop when he was a Doc (or maybe it was vice versa) in PYP mafia which led to his elimination, and he may have felt the same thing would occur here.

--

Glue is someone that I have been able to read fairly well and early from his content. I don't glean any sort of town motivation from his posts so far. They don't have the comprise the elements of someone who is attempting to solve, but rather of someone who needs to have an elimination pool.

I still think moody saying that bessie and Laser are tied together from bessie's confirmation analysis is not a natural town thought. And having a strong and continued town read on Fred from his RVS response is also hard to see as coming from town.

I think Alli is wrong here, and this is scum Madge. Madge does not care for Day 1 and believes the elimination to essentially be random. What scum Madge likes, however, is control. She is someone that I would consider to be a power wolf, in that she works out an endpoint and engineers the game to reach that point. Given these two things, it is less likely that town!Madge would vote for a Day 1 extension due to not being able to be around at EoD and more likely that scum!Madge would, in order to have some aspect of control.

Her response to Glue's vote and quick & correct interpretation of why he voted came off as too familiar. I think it is likely partner-indicative. If I had my way, I would be voting here today since I'm not certain how moody fits into this.

[Freddino18]

Moody is on the scum side of my need-more list, but I'm going to wait for more votes before I switch to anyone.

[Seven]

They don't have the comprise*

[Freddino18]

I see that I got ninja'd, currently do not have time to read that, be back in an hour or 2

[Seven]

Hm. Alli, I really need you to do something towny. Can you elaborate on moody's tone difference and why you believe it to be mafia indicative? Do you agree or disagree with the points I made on him and why?

Why is Mak so low? Dive fully into that read please.

[EGW]

Sure, there's a difference. But he also argued with you quite a bit about his read of Seven in Hallowe'en, (e.g. here and here), where he was mafia. I'm sure I could find you examples of town games where he was overwhelmed and barely present. Not saying you're wrong, just that I have played with him enough to know that his playstyle can vary a lot based on his IRL availability, which also makes him more difficult to read. I'm happy with a small scumlean on him for the present but don't see myself moving much beyond that at this point.

Major difference, in his town game he begun the interaction with me asking about Heury multiple times. In his mafia game, I begun the interaction by asking him. I also note more snark from him in his town games as well. Also remember I did mention this game it seemed like he has been quite active, so I factor that in as well. Also keep in mind Halloween was multi-ball, so it was easier for scum to scumhunt. I can say that for sure as I was scum there as well, and it was easier to do so.