Are we human or are we dancer mafia (game over, Dancers win!)

[Theallieza]

Your interpretation of my read on somi is based on a misunderstanding. I have also barely talked about the somi read at all so it is odd that you seem convinced I was focusing on it.

What misunderstanding? Also that's my concern with you. Somi has posted more and you haven't really changed your read after Somi having much more content to read by, and I thought it odd you'd be trying to convince Seven out of Wam when Wam seems to have an actual alignment indicative error.

You seem to think my read on somi has something to do with his error in not noticing that you/Seven were not scumreading each other at the start of the game. It doesn't, and I never said it does. You are misinterpreting me and at this point it feels deliberate since I have corrected you on this point several times now. I have not yet found anything on somi that changes my read on him. He is very difficult to read and I have been burned by him in the past. I would prefer not to eliminate him D1.

I will discuss Wam in detail after Seven gets back to me about my question on him, but suffice to say I am somewhat confident that his mistake is towntelling, if anything.

[EGW]

Then what the heck are you talking about in terms of Somi??? How else am I to interpret your scumlean on him.

[EGW]

It's time to talk about the Alt business. Why are you using this account now.

[Theallieza]

Then what the heck are you talking about in terms of Somi??? How else am I to interpret your scumlean on him.

Here's where I answered the same question for Mak. I've linked this post to you before.

how is scum!somi trying to come off here that makes you think its scum motivated?

Performative? The vibe I get is kind of "Look, I'm active and engaged" without actually saying anything.

It's time to talk about the Alt business. Why are you using this account now.

I use this account occasionally because I find it fun. I have used it several times, including at both of my appearances at the Mafia Universe Championships.

[EGW]

Can you link me the post where you directed me to that.

[EGW]

Also your tone is just drastically different compared to your other account. So trying to figure that out.

[Theallieza]

This post gives me a weird vibe. I think I'd put a slight scumlean on somi.

I'd like for you to talk about this now. In what way does your reason make Somi scum to you? Is this not an error like you have told me I have pushed for in the past (as my own mistake)? Can it come from town? Why or why not?

I actually already addressed this here. I don't care about the error. I specifically said it was a vibe read.

This one. In direct response to where you asked me about it.

[Theallieza]

Also your tone is just drastically different compared to your other account. So trying to figure that out.

Yes, that's intentional.

[EGW]

Thats because I missed it and was responding to your previous post and forgot to process it in my brain. I don't deliberately misinterpret things. Anyway, by now Somis activity level has been consistent and more than I have seen, so I want to see any updated reads list from you.

[EGW]

an updated reads list EBWOP

[EGW]

Also your tone is just drastically different compared to your other account. So trying to figure that out.

Yes, that's intentional.

Thats why I was asking but you didn't mention it when you answered me. Why is it intentional?

[Theallieza]

Also your tone is just drastically different compared to your other account. So trying to figure that out.

Yes, that's intentional.

Thats why I was asking but you didn't mention it when you answered me. Why is it intentional?

At first I did it because nobody knew who I was and didn't want to make it obvious. Now mostly because it's fun.

[Makhaira]

Vote: No Extension

Extensions are unfair—particularly publicly voted extensions—and in this case, unnecessary.

I generally agree with this but fwiw this is very limited iteration of public extension rules with a hard limit and diminishing accessibility. given this ruleset it is actually the least impactful to use the simple majority extension D1 if you're standing on principle here
Vote: Extension

Ok Bessie is town.

I had the exact same reaction to that post lol this makes me feel better about you

Mak - Let's begin with his first non-confirm post. It feels off, excited to go. Feels a tad forced, to prevent a thunder dome to his slot compared to the previous game. Maks next post, seems like trying to talk about my early game post and get others talking about me in a bad light, without a direct thought of his own. His harping on Somi for making a mistake yet giving Wam the benefit of the doubt pings me. His questioning to Seven seems odd to me, not sure where he stands with me but seems like he's asking to put me in a bad light. Overall, doesn't seem to be looking for actual scum intent, and instead just game play error.

where are you getting the impression I'm afraid of a thunderdome? I havent been shy at all. I also don't understand why you think I'm "giving wam a pass" but "harping" on somi. Their mistakes are of relatively different character. And definitely am not firming convinced that somi was scum skimming or that wam actually was stream of consciousness drafting his reply as he claims. Im just surprised that you are completely convinced it is scum wavering that he forgot to edit out before posting. Im not actually sure where you're getting that I'm putting you in a bad light at all, I've never advocated for you to be elim'd and I've been interacting with you directly and trying to get an understanding of where seven is coming from on their scumread of you and why you essentially hardcleared seven for that which I found strange

[Makhaira]

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

1. Makhaira - 0:
2. Wam - 1: Seven
3. Bessie - 0:
4. heuristically_alone - 0:
5. Gluelock - 2: Moody7277, Wam
6. Madge - 1: Gluelock
7. Seven - 0:
8. Theallieza - 1: EGW
9. somitomi - 0:
10. Freddino18 - 0:
11. moody7277 - 1: Theallieza, Mak
12. JC_DADDY25 - 0:
13. EGW - 1: Freddino

Extension Votes: Theallieza, EGW, Mak
No-Extension Vote: Seven

The deadline is set for Weds September 4rd at 12 am EST.

[Makhaira]

ah shit moody should say two votes sorry, I think right now its only me and thea on them

Gluelock was already viewing thread and it's been multiple days from both of them without posting. I had more town reads at the time at the top of my head and Gluelock / Wam seemed to be the only suspects for me at the time.

Wam, it's simple. He's been caught faking his reads, which only scum do. No meta required.

I'm confused, if you're so convinced wam is definitively faking reads why are you voting thea? based on your most recent reads are you saying the team is me wam thea if its 3 scum?

[Seven]

You’re right, D1 is the least impactful time to use it. Consider my dissent revoked. (Also ngl the 12am deadline confused me and I thought the deadline was Wednesday night not tomorrow).

[Seven]

@Madge what motivated you to ask about day chat?

[Makhaira]

@MOD REQUESTING OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT ASAP WITH UNDER 24 HOURS TO DEADLINE

Fine with moving to JC or wam here if people thing EGW is right about this being a for sure slip, both moody and wam are good info flips imo and JC is the defensive long run play imo

willing to be walked thru the gluelock case I feel like Im missing something others are seeing

Either vote for an extension of pony up folks we're on the clock here

[Makhaira]

EGW if you're town we gotta figure something out here man because idk what I'm doing that scares you so much in these D1s lol

[EGW]

Yes Mak that's what I'm saying. I find my vote to be more useful as pressure on Thea and Wam would be my default / compromise vote. That's my thought process there.

[EGW]

EGW if you're town we gotta figure something out here man because idk what I'm doing that scares you so much in these D1s lol

I actually liked your interactions with me but when trying to make a reads list I just wasn't liking your posts. We can talk reads. Let me get on computer.

[bessie]

I am aware extensions are in the rules. Being in the rules is not equivalent to being fair. It is something I've thought a lot about in my games. Mafia often play in a way specific to the deadline being what it is. Extending the phase undercuts their strategy and advantages town. I was extremely grateful to LaserGuy not allowing slacking town to extend the final day deadline for this reason. Making it publically votable forces mafia to vote for the extension in order to not be outted. For that reason, I will always be voting against an extension, so that mafia have an opportunity to avoid it. That being said, there are situations where extensions are warranted due to irl complications or replacements, so some leeway is necessary. I generally go about this through private requests, private votes, mod discretion, or role quirks.

I don’t agree. It is fair because it is defined in the rules. Just because it’s not your preference doesn’t mean it’s not fair.

I don’t like majority elimination. I would much rather play plurality elimination. My strong dislike of majority elimination doesn’t make it unfair. I also think it was more interesting when we had flips at the start of the next day but I'm not calling it unfair just becaue majority elimination and end-of-day flips aren't in the sign up thread.

Just to put this to bed, I did see that you read Thea as town based off the confirm, it's just that goes against the exclamation point=scum meme that I remember. Interactions with other players show nothing out of the ordinary. Rating: +1

Ok but do you get why I’m town reading Theallieza for it? This response pings me.

You’re right, D1 is the least impactful time to use it. Consider my dissent revoked. (Also ngl the 12am deadline confused me and I thought the deadline was Wednesday night not tomorrow).

Oh JFC I used the countdown clock to work out deadline time and I still got it wrong. I was 24 hours off. Second counting error my bunny side is showing (rabbits can only count to four anything more than four is a million).


Vote: Deadline extensions

2. Up to 3 deadline extensions may be granted for up to 48 hours, first will require a simple majority of players, 2nd 2/3rds, then unanimous. Requests for deadline extensions must be done in thread as follows "vote: deadline extensions"

I don’t know Adum well enough to know if he is a stickler for stuff like this but everyone follow the correct format just in case please.

[Seven]

I don't think I really buy Wam's explanation for his mixup.

Mak - town
EGW - town
Thea - Town

Somi - lean town
Bessie - lean town
Huery - lean town

Moody - neutral
Madge - neutral
JC - neutral, lack of content

Egw - lean scum, weird vibes but can't put my finger on what is making me suspicious.
Fred - lean scum, again not sure why but something is pinging me


Madge scummy , but always is day 1.
Glue - scummy one line vote having been quiet doesn't show desire to solve.

Don't like seven going day 1 solved and being quiet

vote seven

Happy with seven or Glue.

Initially, he has EGW as lean scum for unknown reasons. But when I asked him about what changed in his read, he did provide a reason:

Liked

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=72955#p72955

https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73052#p73052

Disliked
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73053#p73053
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73057#p73057
https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73086#p73086

Felt like scum feeling they should say things rather than trying to solve.

Hope I got the links right quotes were large!

He felt George's questions weren't actually an attempt to solve.

And that reason doesn't sound believable. There is clear attempt to solve in George's play and it is typical for him to ask these sort of prodding questions. Additionally, the three posts that Wam linked, came right after the post that he liked. So if it is true that he initially put George town for those two posts, it is unlikely to me that he would have forgotten that he did so after reading the posts that came just after. I think it is more likely that scum Wam wanted to foster a George elimination that was being brewed up by Seven, but without committing to it.

Further,

Or your first content felt.townie and later pinged me and I forgot to remove the first entry....

You do this with Madge too. You have her as neutral and then you say she's scummy. Can you explain why she was neutral to you and then explain what felt scummy to you? Then do the same with me, tell me what town pinged you from my posts and then show where you got a scum ping and why.

First 5 posts from madge are normal day 1 madge.

This post pinged me. https://ramenchef.net/nxf/viewtopic.php?p=73056#p73056

Esp

do mafia have daychat? it's probably in the rules which i did read ut didn't memorise.

Feels faked.

The point he brought up regarding Madge here is actually quite significant. It seems rather unlikely to me that town!Wam would not have brought this up initially, only putting her down as scummy with no reason.

[Seven]

I am aware extensions are in the rules. Being in the rules is not equivalent to being fair. It is something I've thought a lot about in my games. Mafia often play in a way specific to the deadline being what it is. Extending the phase undercuts their strategy and advantages town. I was extremely grateful to LaserGuy not allowing slacking town to extend the final day deadline for this reason. Making it publically votable forces mafia to vote for the extension in order to not be outted. For that reason, I will always be voting against an extension, so that mafia have an opportunity to avoid it. That being said, there are situations where extensions are warranted due to irl complications or replacements, so some leeway is necessary. I generally go about this through private requests, private votes, mod discretion, or role quirks.

I don’t agree. It is fair because it is defined in the rules. Just because it’s not your preference doesn’t mean it’s not fair.

I don’t like majority elimination. I would much rather play plurality elimination. My strong dislike of majority elimination doesn’t make it unfair. I also think it was more interesting when we had flips at the start of the next day but I'm not calling it unfair just becaue majority elimination and end-of-day flips aren't in the sign up thread.

It's not a preference, it's a philosophical disagreement. Preferences, such as the two examples you listed, are not based on reason. This isn't important to me for the record, I am not complaining, I was simply voicing my opinion.

[EGW]

where are you getting the impression I'm afraid of a thunderdome? I havent been shy at all. I also don't understand why you think I'm "giving wam a pass" but "harping" on somi. Their mistakes are of relatively different character. And definitely am not firming convinced that somi was scum skimming or that wam actually was stream of consciousness drafting his reply as he claims. Im just surprised that you are completely convinced it is scum wavering that he forgot to edit out before posting. Im not actually sure where you're getting that I'm putting you in a bad light at all, I've never advocated for you to be elim'd and I've been interacting with you directly and trying to get an understanding of where seven is coming from on their scumread of you and why you essentially hardcleared seven for that which I found strange

You're right, you haven't been shy. I'm getting mixed messages from you here. At the moment I'm liking your tone. I think Seven explained it best, actually he just posted why. I was getting the bad light more so in a sneaky way. For example, why did you ask Seven about my posts grabbing power early? What was that about. But yeah. I will give you that you have been interacting with me. I'm just that confident of Seven being town here. I'm retracting my scumread of you now. Don't have much time and I feel like maybe some of my original scum picks were right.