Pick Your Poison Mafia (Day 2)

[fontisian]

This is me saying I'm not the vig, by the way. Unless I am.

But no, I think with the rolecop, and the shot, scum likely already narrowed the vig down.

[fontisian]

If Boom is vengeful, I think Zen should be clear. Them repeatedly bringing up the idea of boom as venge, even though they used it to push me, doesn't happen if it's they know it's true.

[fontisian]

I think Zen might be town for the paranoid flip-flopping.

I don't feel he is

Can you talk about this?

Zen has gone back and forth on calling me/Boom scum, on suspecting or not suspecting Bessie, on whether the laser death is useful, etc, all day. How is that not flip flopping?

[fontisian]

If the vig shoots the vengeful, we gain a yeet.

Also, I don't think Boom would have assigned vengeful to himself on D0 unless his team was very strong (with like zen/sab/swiss).

"If you are ever eliminated by town vote at any point in the game, the Mafia faction receives an additional kill that night."

WOOOOOOOOW somehow I still hadn't grasped this. We absolutely want to vig the vengeful. I understood that whenever (and regardless) of how the venge dies they are guaranteed 2 kills.

This feels like a legit misunderstanding, especially since I thought the same.

Did Swiss narrowing in on yeeting boom happen before or after this?

[fontisian]

In an ideal world - Zen who would you yeet?
Boom - who would you yeet
Madge - who would you yeet
Fonyt - who would you yeet

Probably still boom.

Like, if Boom is town, the game is lost anyway.

[fontisian]

Oh. I’m so used to manipulating people into doing what I want that I forget that I can just say what I want.

I'll say this now but it's not just about this quote.

None of you seem to understand how mindgamey and games within games the old forum was. If you guys are playing chequers now, we played harry potter 3d irl chess (when it's their actual lives on the line in Philosophers stone). I used to fucking confirm my actual alignment every game in my confirmation post every game until people realised I was *really* doing it. Wifom within wifom. Zen lived and breathed this with us, and was amongst our best players.

Zen has repeatedly talked about how great he is this game. About how the 'mastermind' won this same game last time. He's talked about scum are playing it the way he would etc

He's gloating about the win before the win. And his attitude has become more and more 'dgamesy' toDay now that we're on the ropes. I hate it.
[/quote]
Do you have a meta example of this you can show me

[fontisian]

You know, if we had just taken janitor instead of vengeful, this wouldn't be an issue.

[Sabrar]

If we yeet Vengeful then Vig can withhold. We should not avoid any specific yeet out of fear.

[Seven]

You know, if we had just taken janitor instead of vengeful, this wouldn't be an issue.

It’s not an issue. With Jan we would have gotten nothing from Wam’s elim.

[madge]

I've been sick and not been spending time at a computer so I've not been able to follow like normal.

@Swiss
Q: "I asked weak doc to protect me, how does that affect your read of me?"
A: It doesn't, I don't believe powerroles will take advice from single townies.

Q: If you're vig will you vig zen?
A: I don't know who zen is, so I can't tell you.

I'm OK with yeeting anyone in my scum vibes list, but I'm not confident in my accuracy.

MADGE'S ACTUAL READS

[scum, all based on vibes]
seven (very suspicious that ur vengeful)
boom
SABRAR

[town]
everyone else

[towniest town]
bessie (wavering)

MADGE'S CONFTOWN SHEEPING MASTERLIST:

Mak: scum JC, bessie votable
Wam: scum boom
moody: too close to call
fredd: nothing useful

[EGW]

Votecount 2.14

1. Boomfrog
2. Swiss
3. Madge
4. Seven
5. JC
6. Fonti
7. bessie
8. Sabrar

Not voting:
Boomfrog, Swiss, Madge, Seven, JC, Fonti, Bessie, Sabrar

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

With 8 players, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is Friday December 15th at 11:59PM EST

[Seven]

Swiss, you haven't played with me before. A person of whom the foundation of yourself is built upon played with a person of whom the foundation of myself is built upon. Those two last played together 12 and a half years ago where the latter used their considerable deductive skills to suss out and obliterate the former and his scum team. We are different people from them. At least, I would presume you are different. Additionally, I don't believe I or my predecessor have ever been one for showboating as in the case of yours stating his alignment each game. I've never found any thrill in it and it introduces a wholly unnecessary risk. Also I'm curious where you obtained the idea that I called myself a mastermind. I was a part of the previous scum team but I wasn't the mastermind. That was the work of god.

If you want to know how I play and not the past incarnation you are familiar with, my ISO from this game would be good to read: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... tainous%29

[Seven]

I've been sick and not been spending time at a computer so I've not been able to follow like normal.

@Swiss
Q: "I asked weak doc to protect me, how does that affect your read of me?"
A: It doesn't, I don't believe powerroles will take advice from single townies.

Q: If you're vig will you vig zen?
A: I don't know who zen is, so I can't tell you.

I'm OK with yeeting anyone in my scum vibes list, but I'm not confident in my accuracy.

MADGE'S ACTUAL READS

[scum, all based on vibes]
seven (very suspicious that ur vengeful)
boom
SABRAR

[town]
everyone else

[towniest town]
bessie (wavering)

MADGE'S CONFTOWN SHEEPING MASTERLIST:

Mak: scum JC, bessie votable
Wam: scum boom
moody: too close to call
fredd: nothing useful

Do you happen to remember a user named Zenii on the old forum?

[bessie]

Daily bark!

So he wanted to see if I was willing to yeet bessie. That's why he ran the wagon at her last minute.

Seven please react to this.

I wasn't testing Boom, I was testing you.

@BoomFrog, what is your reaction to Seven’s reply? One of your reasons for townreading Seven is that you believed he was testing you (refer to this post ). Now Seven claims he was testing me, not you. Does this affect your read of Seven?

So what's the conclusion from all your questions?

I am processing.

And to clarify, you do know I could never have any legitimate ire toward you right?

Well gosh darn I’m not trying hard enough!

Thinks scum shot Fred. Super TMI as it's counter to what others thought. Don't think scum would say this especially since she had scum as her biggest suspect so why would scum shoot Fred, what the heck. Don't think scum tend to have these weird takes.

Please explain. My biggest suspect at the end of D1 was you. Everyone except Seven please refer to this post for proof, WHICH Seven already knows.

^IS THIS A SCUM SLIP???????????

EBWOP: she had scum as her biggest suspect > he had Fred as her biggest suspect

TOO LATE I ALREADY CAUGHT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

@Bessie were you scumreading Mak before he flipped?

Not really, but I wasn’t townreading him either. At the end of D1 (until Wam claimed) I was confident I had solved the game, and didn’t bother trying very hard to sort Mak. Or moody, or Madge. Those three ended up on the scummy side of my Woof-Grr list based on my unreliable gut.

Is it normal for you to have that kind of confidence in a day 1 solve?

Yes this is completely normal and can be verified.

@Seven
@Madge
@BoomFrog
@Sabrar
@Seven

Can you please verify the above for fonti?

Also, apologies, I'm not trying to ignore you. It's just hard to interact when we have very different schedules.

Oh, I don’t feel you are ignoring me. But I find it interesting that other players are not interacting with me much, or have not questioned me much. I’m a very reactive player, and if I have nothing to react to I struggle to make content. I can only assume that someone that knows me well is avoiding interacting with me because they fear my extraordinary scumhunting abilities.

Q: If you're vig will you vig zen?
A: I don't know who zen is, so I can't tell you.

Zen is Seven. Reminder to everyone, please be courteous and use screennames!

[madge]

Sure, I'd vig Seven

Bessie does indeed claim to solve on D1.

[Seven]

Thinks scum shot Fred. Super TMI as it's counter to what others thought. Don't think scum would say this especially since she had scum as her biggest suspect so why would scum shoot Fred, what the heck. Don't think scum tend to have these weird takes.

Please explain. My biggest suspect at the end of D1 was you. Everyone except Seven please refer to this post for proof, WHICH Seven already knows.

^IS THIS A SCUM SLIP???????????

This was your readlist. Additionally, me being your biggest suspect doesn't change the meaning of my point.

EBWOP: she had scum as her biggest suspect > he had Fred as her biggest suspect

TOO LATE I ALREADY CAUGHT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought you were going to point out that my EBWOP ended up with a typo too. I was super annoyed when I saw that.

Not really, but I wasn’t townreading him either. At the end of D1 (until Wam claimed) I was confident I had solved the game, and didn’t bother trying very hard to sort Mak. Or moody, or Madge. Those three ended up on the scummy side of my Woof-Grr list based on my unreliable gut.

Is it normal for you to have that kind of confidence in a day 1 solve?

Yes this is completely normal and can be verified.

@Seven
@Madge
@BoomFrog
@Sabrar
@Seven

I'm not familiar with this aspect of your play, but I take your world on it. I know you tunnel a person, but games we've played together where you had a full D1 solve don't immediately come to mind.

I'm not familiar with this aspect of your play, but I take your world on it. I know you tunnel a person, but games we've played together where you had a full D1 solve don't immediately come to mind.

Q: If you're vig will you vig zen?
A: I don't know who zen is, so I can't tell you.

Zen is Seven. Reminder to everyone, please be courteous and use screennames!

All my names are in my sig though and I like when different people call me by different names. Like I found it strange when Fonti called me Zen instead of Xivii. Also Madge just always forgets who I am T___T

[madge]

I'm sorry Seven I struggle with this sort of thing, it's not just you

[boomfrog]

I'm too tired and I don't have the time for a reread or analysis to verify my gut, so you just get my memory and instincts. Seven's paranoia, and the vig shooting one of my hard town clears is just too much to deal with. I'm not going to hard carry this game.

Fonti and Swiss are scum. Fonti for way too defensive start of D2 because they were mentality prepared to fight me toDay when they decided to not NE me. Swiss was hard town reading me start of D2 and dropped it for basically nothing.

They both maintain the 'theory' that Seven and I are scum buddies even though that would mean seven is hard bussing me. Vengeful isn't powerful enough that it's worth sacrificing a mafioso at MYLO. Their 'theory' is fake.

Madge's 'town slip' is negated by her joining late as sabrar pointed out. Sabrar will likely be sus of me for this inconsistency, I can only blame being tired. I have been very tired this week and I wouldn't lie about that as scum. Take that for what is worth.

My confidence in Bessie's townness has been eroded by her consistently bad reads. I don't think we should yeet her but I don't think we should give her a pass at endgame.

JC and Seven are town. Seven cares too much today, scum are winning and just trying to maintain. She is too high energy when no one but Swiss is coming close to matching that energy.
Swiss and fonti not seeing this is sus as hell. Sorry bessie, Seven's explanation for your wagon doesn't change that it was a townie pushing to test someone. If you stay fixated on Seven being scum than we lose.

JC is just based on a few posts and is more gut, but I think it's pretty likely correct.

@Seven I'll vote however you like, lead the way. Let's get these wagons started so the third scum has to decide between hammering me or hiding.

@madge: Can you vote last? As a wildcard if you are town it will force scum into an awkward choice.

If we yeet Vengeful the vig should withhold so we get another yeet. Scum will eliminate one more townie so it will be a smaller pool to pick from in a yeet than taking a shot at night.

[boomfrog]

So sworn.

If I die, don't tunnel him.

This is Frozen telling me to not let scum!JC win, if he dies and I live. That's a. Not a scenario I was really expecting to happen and b. Something I will absolutely promise and then reneg on if I feel confident enough JC is town. If I fuck it up, I'll deal with the criticism from Frozen later. The more important thing was keeping his vote.

That seems like a really weird attitude to have. To quote a scholar and a poet: "Words have meaning!". You can't just say, "nah, 'So sworn' doesn't mean anything."

Sure I can.

@Sabrar: Yeet All Liars?

[JC_DADDY25]

So you are keeping up with everything? Can you share your thoughts on everyone in thread?

Seven is playing the way she played in Hailloween, where it appears that she's flip flopping/going back and forth on who's scum and who's not, but I feel like it's being faked. I may be reading too much into it, but it feels like there's a pattern to it.

Madge I've never played with before, so it's kind of hard to read her. I just feel like she's posting here and there to say something without actually saying anything. I know I don't say much, it's just what she's saying that's making me feel uneasy about her.

Bessie seemed more active last game, even with the limited time that she's active. I think she mentioned something about being reactive so people not interacting with her is making it harder for her, but just because people aren't saying anything to her specifically doesn't mean she doesn't have anything to react to so I'm on the fence about her but leaning more on her being scum.

Boom has had his townie moments, but I just don't feel like I can trust him yet. As much as he has done to appear townie, there's something off about it and it makes me doubt the sincerity behind those actions.

Sabrar I have no read on to be honest. I'm not getting scum vibes from them, but I don't have faith in them being town either. I don't know what it is, but I am leaning town here.

Fonti is someone else I'm not familiar with, but I started off leaning scum here on day 1 and as time has gone on I'm feeling less and less sure that my initial feeling was right. Leaning town here at the moment.

[Sabrar]

Is it normal for you to have that kind of confidence in a day 1 solve?

Yes this is completely normal and can be verified.

True.

@Sabrar: Yeet All Liars?

Lol. That mentality worked on the old forum but not anymore after Seven and co showed up.

[Seven]

@Seven I'll vote however you like, lead the way. Let's get these wagons started so the third scum has to decide between hammering me or hiding.

@Sabrar, are you ok with me voting or would you prefer more time?

[Sabrar]

@Sabrar, are you ok with me voting or would you prefer more time?

I don't know how much time I will have today, so I'm okay with starting the votes a bit early. My issue is that you live in a state of duality in my mind. If you're town I think I can trust your reads for today at least. But I'm worried that you're scum trying to set up a misyeet while still bussing your buddy. So I definitely prefer yeeting Boomfrog today.

[Seven]

That's a sensible suspicion. I'm going to go JC but will switch to Boom if needed. JC is easier to elim that Fonti and is the capstone to the solve I believe.

Vote: JC

@Boom

[Sabrar]

Nope, that didn't help.

Vote: boomfrog