Pick Your Poison Mafia (Day 2)

[Swiss]

This is crazy. FoS for asking someone their reasoning because i haven't yet done it. Stifles discussion and an easy way to throw barbs at me - which I think she's only doing because I've called it that her vibe is off. ESPECIALLY since she knew i was out of the country, with low activity, and openly recognised that I hadnt gone more into detail on her. Feels OMGUSY (oh my god you suck for voting me)

No. This is a very reasonable point and you deserve an FoS for it. I did not stifle discussion, nor discourage Sabrar from answering your question. Yes I think it is suspicious for someone to make a pattern of asking others for reads but not providing their own. Why are you so upset about having someone express suspicion of you? I did not vote for you, I used my FoS to note something so I wouldn’t forget it.

You cover off, quite reasonably, other objections.

This however I still hate. You won't "let" me question Sabrar with a quick one-liner because I haven't responded with an indepth post to you yet. Yet you knew I was abroad with low activity posting via mobile. Why should my short term inability to post in depth to you stop me from posting a one liner to others? Doesn't add up.

Pettiness. I think scum!bessie likely to be more careful to want to appear reasonable. That or it's just an opportunity to focus on a Swiss-Bessie argument and exempts you from posting and engaging with others.

[Swiss]

^Reserving the right to flip on FF shortly as re-reading this janitor thing now

[EGW]

Votecount 1.7

1. Boomfrog
2. Wam
3. Swiss
4. Mak: Fonti, Seven
5. Fred
6. Madge
7. Seven: JC
8. moody
9. JC:
10. Fonti
11. bessie: Swiss
12. Sabrar

Not voting:
Boomfrog, Fred, Madge, Mak, Moody, Bessie, Sabrar, Wam

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
Weekends will now be counted as half a day each

With 12 players, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.
The deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday 6th, at 11:59PM EST

[Swiss]

I would like to remind people that I am not familiar with all of the abbreviations being used and do not wish to constantly ask what one or the other means.

I already am suspicious of a couple of individuals due to their picks and reasoning, but am waiting to hear from everyone before I start asking those people questions. I don't really have anything else to say so early in the day.

Freddino baby, I think you forgot about your reads x

[Swiss]

I think it's odd that the two roles you found least threatening are the two roles you would hope for as scum. Fonti and Sabrar aren't misinterpreting anything. Considering which roles are the least threatening implies consideration of the roles town might have.
[/quote]

FF respond to this please.

I am trying so hard to care about this and just don't.

Let's wagon someone.

vote seven

[Sabrar]

When I was saying 2 shot RB and godfather were my top picks to give scum, that was my initial position just in the context of "which scum roles do I think are the least threatening in a vacuum not knowing what town roles that scum selected

I'm not ignoring the context, the whole issue here is that we are not in a vacuum. If you think that as scum you would give Town roles A, B and C and hope to get roles X and Y back then how can you think that as Town it would make most sense to give precisely X and Y to scum? It just does not compute.

do you believe anything about this alternative "mathy" take on the game strategy is alignment indicative in any way? You say its a fresh perspective which you "like." Is that meant to convey you enjoyed the perspective from an academic standpoint or you think this type of perspective on the game, or even as just applied to this setup, is town alignment indicative? If so why

I enjoyed it as a pure math-exercise but I also think it is alignment-indicative, as it goes contrary to scum's usual count of 'how many townies do we need to misyeet'.

Wam - disagree but I'm normally a scum lean day 1 irrespective of alignment

Need other people to weigh in here.

Wam can indeed be an easy misyeet D1. If he ever makes it into town-core he is probably scum.

[Sabrar]

With that said I think I found a potential town-slip by wam. This sucks.

[Wam]

Let's wagon someone.

vote seven

Correct sentiment wrong target.

vote makhira

viewtopic.php?p=57537#p57537 I do make my life harder sometimes.

[Swiss]

With that said I think I found a potential town-slip by wam. This sucks.

The tension is killing me

[Sabrar]

Excellent.

[moody7277]

Vote: makhaira

Right now they're my scummiest read, will do some detailed reads of people tonight (Swiss's posting habit is going to defy my usual method).

[fontisian]

Sabrar what is your read on fonti?

I like how they constantly reevaluated the roles D0. I don't agree with some of their opinion but they gave reasonable explanation. I've especially like this fresh perspective.
D1 they are expressing an opinion on a bunch of players (which again I like) but their main content is their argument with you. I am not impartial here and I think fonti's concerns are legitimate. You are doing exactly what you accuse fonti of, namely twisting their words. You accuse them of saying that you think GF + roleblock are the best roles for scum. That's not what they said. They said that you as scum would have hoped for those roles. And you did claim that exactly.
So overall I have a townlean on fonti.

im not twisting anything. You both are failing to read the appropriate context

When I was saying 2 shot RB and godfather were my top picks to give scum, that was my initial position just in the context of "which scum roles do I think are the least threatening in a vacuum not knowing what town roles that scum selected

When I said scum!Me "would hope for roleblocker and godfather for counterplay" that was in the specific context of me answering Booms question of what roles I would give town if I were scum.

"So yeah my final picks would prob be masonizer, cop, weak doc, and then hope my team atleast gets a godfather or roleblocker atleast for some counterplay"

Thats the full quote, and it boggles my mind that yall somehow are acting like my first picks for what powers to give the scum from town!Me POV, somehow contradicts me saying that if I were scum and gave town x,y,z roles, I would hope for roles a and b because they would atleast give some counterplay

now the question is are sab and fonti legit confused or just scum skimming

Ok, that is actually what I thought you were saying. My question is more like if you think scum!you would benefit from a roleblocker and godfather, because of the roles you would pick for town, why not take the extra step in reasoning from there and wonder if the scum team would also want those scum roles?

For example, I as scum would have gone cop, weak doc, vig. Godfather fucks with all three of those roles, so I didn't want to vote for it.

I want to be clear, I understand why you think janitor and rolecop are bad. My point is more that your analysis seemed shallow. After you talked about what you would do as scum, you could have explored more yourself (by going "oh hey, scum!me would be hoping for the roles I want to give scum, maybe I should reassess and either change my mind or reinforce my points"). Instead you just kind of stopped there.

[fontisian]

Mak, I appreciate the reassurance about me not being too heated. I felt like I was getting riled up for personal reasons, is all.

Seven, hey my dude, I feel kind of bored with you this game. I'm not used to that feeling, and I'm wondering if it means you're scum. What's up?

Swiss, I think if you're really townreading Mak, you should talk about why and find a better yeet.

[fontisian]

do you believe anything about this alternative "mathy" take on the game strategy is alignment indicative in any way? You say its a fresh perspective which you "like." Is that meant to convey you enjoyed the perspective from an academic standpoint or you think this type of perspective on the game, or even as just applied to this setup, is town alignment indicative? If so why

I enjoyed it as a pure math-exercise but I also think it is alignment-indicative, as it goes contrary to scum's usual count of 'how many townies do we need to misyeet'.

Interesting.

I think my view of the math part is the same across ganes, regardless of my alignment, because it's actually complimentary with scum thoughts on misyeets.

I think this is a poor reason to townread me.

[Swiss]

Swiss, I think if you're really townreading Mak, you should talk about why and find a better yeet.

Yeah I sit here cognizant of this. You should read my bessie post.

I have quoted FF's good & bad posts in my catchups. His though process is sincere imo - he thinks he's scumhunting and that's all that matters. I refuse to nail my balls to the mast that he's town - but they're on the ship, ya know?

The 'scummy' post I originally highlighted is bad, but most of his posts are good. I feel like I started this snowball and am now watching it roll down the mountain unsure on where it will end up

[Swiss]

Seven, hey my dude, I feel kind of bored with you this game. I'm not used to that feeling, and I'm wondering if it means you're scum. What's up?

Good

[fontisian]

Swiss, I think if you're really townreading Mak, you should talk about why and find a better yeet.

Yeah I sit here cognizant of this. You should read my bessie post.

I have quoted FF's good & bad posts in my catchups. His though process is sincere imo - he thinks he's scumhunting and that's all that matters. I refuse to nail my balls to the mast that he's town - but they're on the ship, ya know?

The 'scummy' post I originally highlighted is bad, but most of his posts are good. I feel like I started this snowball and am now watching it roll down the mountain unsure on where it will end up

Yeah. I'm not really sure I agree on him thinking he's scum hunting, but I do think the degree of aggression and omgus ("oh my go, you suck," an overreaction to being pushed) feels kind of towny. Like there's a degree of arrogance there that usually comes from someone knowing they're town.

I'll check out your Bessie stuff.

[Sabrar]

Interesting.

I think my view of the math part is the same across ganes, regardless of my alignment, because it's actually complimentary with scum thoughts on misyeets.

I think this is a poor reason to townread me.

Obviously you know your own mind better, I don't think this topic ever came up previously in our games.

[fontisian]

Interesting.

I think my view of the math part is the same across ganes, regardless of my alignment, because it's actually complimentary with scum thoughts on misyeets.

I think this is a poor reason to townread me.

Obviously you know your own mind better, I don't think this topic ever came up previously in our games.

I don't believe so.

You noticing me flipping between janitor and jailer was cool though. I didn't realize I was doing that, and that probably is something I wouldn't have fucked up as scum.

[fontisian]

This is crazy. FoS for asking someone their reasoning because i haven't yet done it. Stifles discussion and an easy way to throw barbs at me - which I think she's only doing because I've called it that her vibe is off. ESPECIALLY since she knew i was out of the country, with low activity, and openly recognised that I hadnt gone more into detail on her. Feels OMGUSY (oh my god you suck for voting me)

No. This is a very reasonable point and you deserve an FoS for it. I did not stifle discussion, nor discourage Sabrar from answering your question. Yes I think it is suspicious for someone to make a pattern of asking others for reads but not providing their own. Why are you so upset about having someone express suspicion of you? I did not vote for you, I used my FoS to note something so I wouldn’t forget it.

You cover off, quite reasonably, other objections.

This however I still hate. You won't "let" me question Sabrar with a quick one-liner because I haven't responded with an indepth post to you yet. Yet you knew I was abroad with low activity posting via mobile. Why should my short term inability to post in depth to you stop me from posting a one liner to others? Doesn't add up.

Pettiness. I think scum!bessie likely to be more careful to want to appear reasonable. That or it's just an opportunity to focus on a Swiss-Bessie argument and exempts you from posting and engaging with others.

Swiss, I'm confused by your argument. You think Bessie is scummy because she's not as amenable as you'd expect, but you also think scum!Bessie is more careful to try to seem reasonable? These two thoughts seem contradictory.

I have seen Bessie be inflexible regardless of her alignment. I think she's the kind of player who gets locked into feelings.

[Swiss]

Swiss, I'm confused by your argument. You think Bessie is scummy because she's not as amenable as you'd expect, but you also think scum!Bessie is more careful to try to seem reasonable? These two thoughts seem contradictory.

I have seen Bessie be inflexible regardless of her alignment. I think she's the kind of player who gets locked into feelings.

She's not as amenable (agreed not the best word) as she was in the other game with me, no.
And yes a scum player would be more keen to be seen as reasonable, to appear as the 'better' of the two in any back and forth.

This is a poor way for me to explain - but 'not as amenable' (meta-read) is not competing with the opposite of reasonable (smart!scumplay) in this instance.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

[fontisian]

Not at all.

[fontisian]

Wait, do you mean reasonable as in "the person with stronger reasons?"

[Swiss]

No, I mean 'a player not caring about appearing unreasonable' is a town tell.
'A player careful to appear reasonable' is scum.

Hence me not liking Zen earlier, and giving bessie + vibe for that post.

[fontisian]

Ok, what are you trying to convince me of here? What do you think Bessie's alignment is? Why do you think that?