Pick Your Poison Mafia (Day 2)

[Swiss]

@egw you can delete that large quote if you like, another accidental post from hitting FUCKING SPACEBAR

[EGW]

Votecount 1.5

1. Boomfrog
2. Wam
3. Swiss
4. Mak: Fonti, Seven
5. Fred
6. Madge
7. Seven: JC
8. moody
9. JC:
10. Fonti
11. bessie: Swiss
12. Sabrar

Not voting:
Boomfrog, Mak, Fred, Madge, Moody, Bessie, Sabrar, Wam

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

With 12 players, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.
The deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday 6th, at 11:59PM EST

[Wam]

Deadline is closer than I thought.

Not vote able day 1

Swiss, sabrar, font, boom. Moody

Unlikely to be my choice
Fred JC seven

Potentials that I'm going to re read.
Mak
Madge
Bessie

Ps maybe we should elim swiss just to save them from having to use this forum

[Swiss]

^sweet jesus yes please

[Swiss]

Wam - why is Madge on your radar?

[Wam]

Yeah but my competitiveness to win the game will outweigh my sympathy!

[Sabrar]

@Swiss: please next time just link to the posts instead of quoting the whole thing. It makes it so much more readable.

[Swiss]

Like this?

[Sabrar]

Yeah that should work. Maybe make the link a little bit bigger so we can click it more easily. Thanks!

[moody7277]

I used to play a lot of flip-less setups. Not knowing a flip just changes the way you have to scumhunt.

Okay, so you are experienced enough with the paradigm to not dismiss giving scum Janitor out of hand. As I said, the only game I was in with it town got steamrolled, so I'm still a little twitchy about it.

[Sabrar]

@boomfrog: here you are asking moody to speculate on why the setup has both doc and weak doc as an option. moody misinterprets the question here. what was the purpose of the question and why did you not follow-up like you have with others?

[Wam]

@swiss with the janitor not showing role and alignment jt ccoild case chaos. Say we elim you and you claim cop. I counter claim then the reveal doesn't happen. Am i the cop am are you? I have done something similar previously and rode it too victory.

Also at lylo if scum can work out they covered up the elim of a town PR that can give scum an amazing safe claim. The final bit is having no idea when mylo/lylo is along with not being able to work on links. I find confirmation bias means that town always tend to assume.the elim was scum.

@mak few questions apologies if already asked.

How does anyone town aligned think giving scum day rolecop is a good idea like hello?????

What of the other 4 scum roles is more town aligned to give scum?

Why the sudden switch here to rolecop being better than at least 1, only 20 min later.

viewtopic.php?p=57132#p57132

viewtopic.php?p=57263#p57263

Did I answer this. If not I had missed that scu. Got to assign the roles they get internally. Hence querying what font meant then went back and re read setup and worked it out. Why were you asking?

I know swiss queried this but as well

bessie townlean

Why?

@madge

I have played enough with you to known your view of day 1 bit given the D0 some thoughts are needed!

[Swiss]

@swiss with the janitor not showing role and alignment jt ccoild case chaos. Say we elim you and you claim cop. I counter claim then the reveal doesn't happen. Am i the cop am are you? I have done something similar previously and rode it too victory.

Also at lylo if scum can work out they covered up the elim of a town PR that can give scum an amazing safe claim. The final bit is having no idea when mylo/lylo is along with not being able to work on links. I find confirmation bias means that town always tend to assume.the elim was scum.

I agree, why are you saying this though?

[Wam]

Ok, I’ve read through the first couple pages and I don’t get what’s so great about the janitor. It appears there are no indies in the game, and no town or mafia roles that don’t flip as part of an ability. If a player flips without an alignment reveal, can’t we just assume they are town?

Because I misread this as a question by you.

[Swiss]

Ah, it didn't quote properly - that was from Bessie.

[Wam]

Ah, it didn't quote properly - that was from Bessie.

Realised that when i went back. I blame phone posting.

[Swiss]

1. Boomfrog lurky null
2. Wam scumleanny
3. Swiss godfather
4. Mak townlean
5. Fred null town
6. Madge null town
7. Seven scumlean
8. moody need to check
9. JC town
10. Fonti town
11. bessie scumlean
12. Sabrar townlean

I would kill (do we use kill? whats the word? kill is too vague) Zen/Bessie/Wam. No preference.

Thoughts on this Wam?

[Wam]

1. Boomfrog lurky null
2. Wam scumleanny
3. Swiss godfather
4. Mak townlean
5. Fred null town
6. Madge null town
7. Seven scumlean
8. moody need to check
9. JC town
10. Fonti town
11. bessie scumlean
12. Sabrar townlean

I would kill (do we use kill? whats the word? kill is too vague) Zen/Bessie/Wam. No preference.

Thoughts on this Wam?

I normally use elim and leave kill for the nights but you do you. Oh wait you mean the reads.

Boom - agree
Wam - disagree but I'm normally a scum lean day 1 irrespective of alignment
Swiss- interesting given that's not an option. I'm townreading you.
Mak - disagree
Fred - agree (ish)
Madge - disagree
Seven- disagree
Moody - think I ahev seen enough for day 1
Jc - agree
Fonti - agree
Bessie - not sure yet
Sabrar - agree

[Makhaira]

Vote: Rolecop

I'm leaning towards the janitor for my other choice tbh. Yeah it sucks to not be sure but there's a 1/3 chance that the first mafia we kill is the janitor and it is moot.

madge plz explain all this plz respond plz

I explained this in a later post on d0, I am not inclined to repeat myself.

why not? Because your answer might not be consistent because its a fake answer? You could have just quoted your old answer too btw, this is being unhelpful for literally no reason if youre town, defensive and afraid of slipping up if scum

[Makhaira]

Yo, I exist.

[continuing where I left off]

For the roles, I don't really have any context as to what's powerful and what isn't, other than the fact that some people seem to really hate Janitor. I feel like the roleblocker is kind of a dick move, but it seems like it can miss.

Tentative vote for
Roleblocker
and
Godfather

Open to suggestions and explanations, especially as to why Janitor is so hated.

Fred, can you explain what you mean by a "dick move?"

I can understand how janitor can disrupt things, but could a one shot do that much damage?

This feels genuine. It could be genuine and still come from scum, but I think the thought process comes from town more often than not. I like the word "damage" in particular.

I agree with this. I don't mind Rolecop as it's the only thing that doesn't interfere with town's actions in any way. Godfather I think should just always be excluded based on there being two roles (three?) that it can interfere with, and discussing the wifom behind whether mafia would choose those roles in hopes that we choose godfather just creates a discussion wherein it's easy for mafia to identify who has those roles. I would probably give 2-shot Roleblocker over Vengeful due to it being just 2 shots. So ultimately, Roleblocker + Rolecop is where I'm probably voting.

So the game scum won previously was janitor/roleblocker, yeah?

I'm curious why you were cool with both roleblocker and rolecop going to scum. Was roleblocker not relevant in that game? And did you not see how rolecop and roleblocker synergize?


I dig the early the enthusiasm from Swiss, and them getting a townread on JC for being "lost."

Am I reading wrong or is my understanding correct that town roles have yet to be assigned and that scum pick town roles after we all lock in the scum roles by vote?

Ah nope just re-read, scum picks town roles in "pregame" which is prior to D0 and they get randomly assigned

I thought it went D0 votes for scum roles happen, then N0 scum picks town roles for random distribution knowing what scum roles have been picked, but yeah its the opposite order so Booms question actually makes sense

This smells like manipulation. Why would you take the time to ask about the rules in the chat, go and check, and then confirm that you were wrong, instead of just checking in the first place? It's performative.

To booms question, I dont see any reason to give town a doctor over a weak doctor as weak doctor seems to only be a strictly worse version of doctor, so that would be pick one. If masonizer dies when targeting non-town roles Id probably pick that too but thats kind of like a higher risk but higher reward cop, so it would be one of those two depending on how confident I was that I could draw a mason target or dodge a cop investigation respectively.

Allowing two docs in gane creates a possibly unwinnable situation for scum if they both claim and protect each other so thats super no bueno imo from a scum perspective and would not want that. So probably would go with Cop as 3rd pick. Vigilante on the wrong player slot is a huge existential risk to a 2 man scum team and can really throw off endgame calculations


So yeah my final picks would prob be masonizer, cop, weak doc, and then hope my team atleast gets a godfather or roleblocker atleast for some counterplay

Also, what is this?

"If masonizer dies when targeting non-town roles." They don't. Makhaira was literally just on the rules page, they could have checked, and they clearly did check how weak doctor works.

Also, also:
"and then hope my team atleast gets a godfather or roleblocker atleast for some counterplay"

Following:

Swiss I am frozenflame as seven covered in impressive detail

Were those MBTI types guesses? Because I consistently get ENTP on those quizzes with I/E and P/J being very borderline and could go the other way (like 55/45), so that was an impressive guess if it was in fact a guess as Im not sure if I ever discussed MBTI type stuff on smashboards, here, or in the discord

Jealous of heury already finishing their full 3 star clear of MK8, need to get on that, the new tracks are super fun

My first impression was that two shot roleblocker and godfather are the best roles to give scum because roleblocked is shooting in the dark unless we claim and godfather is entirely passive and just need to be taken into account when we parse investigation results. Given scum roleblocker with role cope is a huge mistake though as those roles synergize perfectly. So my current inclination is to vote godfather/2 shot RB but Im open to other ideas. Im not sure I entitely understand vengeful mafia though if someone is willing to explain that in greater detail

My dude, why didn't you reconsider what roles to vote for, when you said that scum!you would be hoping for those same roles?

My answer depends on who the scum team are.

If its a steong scum team and can generally appear town as scum I would go for the vig/mason/weak doc combination and hope the weak doc and Mason target scum and take themselves out and the vig hammwrs town.

If the team is weaker and generally appears more suspicious I would go down the vig/doc/masoniser route.

Noting that Wam may be scum if Frozen is scum, because they picked up the same mason misconception.

I was posting stream of consciousness and had no idea at the time that the role descriptions were spoiler tagged and could be shown by clicking the role name, there is no overt spoiler tag indication anywhere on the role list post. I was just punching the role names into the mafia scum wiki to get the descriptions for the roles to check for variants I might not be familier with and otherwise assumed the roles were in their "basic" form. Weak doctor had a clear description on mafiascum wiki that comports directly to how it works in this game as it is a role with little variance. Masonizer had a lot more variance and the version we have in this game does not follow any of the standard variants described on mafia scum wiki. Go look for yourself

none of that was "performative", my misunderstanding of of the order of operations for role assignment was me asking a question hoping someone could give me a direct answer out of laziness and then just saying fuck it Ill just go check


"My dude, why didn't you reconsider what roles to vote for, when you said that scum!you would be hoping for those same roles?"

Alright at this point you are deliberately misunderstanding my posts and misrepresenting my takes, no where did I state that godfather and roleblocker were the best roles for the scum to have from the scum perspective. Ive clearly stated I think janitor is worst for town and that roleblocker is only scary when combo'd with rolecop.

Second time youve done this. And when I called you out for falsely claiming I pushed you for voting rolecop, when I was in fact pushing you for voting janitor, you gave me this nonsense "lol oopsie not gonna explain tho just ISO me kthx!"

Hey FF, why did you go after me for conceding to rolecop and not one of the people who actually voted for it?

uhhhhh I didn't hello?

I went after you for pushing janitor, you know know better

gonna need this powerwolf to explain to me how town!fonti believes janitor isnt that bad to deal or at minimum how janitor is less harmful to town prospects than rolecop

still waiting on the explanation btw

Oh, lol, I misread that.

I've explained it a lot already. I'm phone posting and don't want to go looking. Please iso me instead.

Vote: Fontissian

[Makhaira]

My bessie townlean comes from me playing with town!bessie for atleast the last 2-3 games Ive been in with her and her style not really deviating from that baseline so far. Not a hard read by any means but it feels like town!bessie again to me here

[Makhaira]

Seven coming after me feels opportunistic af rn

[Makhaira]

JC gonna be useless all game can already tell

[Makhaira]

Its actually unbeleiveable to me that anyone is defending people voting for giving scum the power to janitor their own mate's flip if we dont identify the janitor as scum first. It's arguably the most valuable flip we can get in this setup, especially so if the surviving mate actually tries to swing the wagon away

[Makhaira]

Seven what is your actual read on Seven rn?

Sabrar what is your read on fonti?