Pick Your Poison Mafia (Day 2)

[EGW]

Votecount 1.4

1. Boomfrog
2. Wam
3. Swiss
4. Mak
5. Fred
6. Madge
7. Seven: JC
8. moody
9. JC:
10. Fonti
11. bessie: Swiss
12. Sabrar

Not voting:
Boomfrog, Mak, Fred, Madge, Seven, Moody, Fonti, Bessie, Sabrar, Wam

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

With 12 players, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.
The deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday 6th, at 11:59PM EST

[Seven]

@bessie at what point did you become aware that the role options had descriptions?

@JC was your vote sarcastic or genuine?

@Madge if you were scum, would you have approached Day 0 differently? And if so, how?

What does nb mean?

[Sabrar]

@moody: fonti voted for Janitor here and unvoted here. Between the two posts you have FoS-d madge for just leaning towards Janitor but you didn't acknowledge fonti's vote. You also posted immediately after fonti's unvote and still haven't mentioned them neither at that time, nor later. Why?

[moody7277]

Having more experience playing with Madge, I pay attention to her more than a newer player I'm still trying to figure out. Also, with as much hyperbole as I put down about the role, I didn't really sense there was much of a push for the role. The first post of fonti's you cite is interesting because it looks like reflex to pick those two, which I would surmise means he hasn't had such a truly awful experience with the role.

[Sabrar]

Having more experience playing with Madge, I pay attention to her more than a newer player I'm still trying to figure out.

This implies that you haven't noticed the vote at all.

Also, with as much hyperbole as I put down about the role, I didn't really sense there was much of a push for the role. The first post of fonti's you cite is interesting because it looks like reflex to pick those two, which I would surmise means he hasn't had such a truly awful experience with the role.

This is justification for not reacting to the vote even if you had noticed it. So which is it? Why give 2 answers that cannot both be true?

[bessie]

^^ Above post is a video titled "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". Not sure what it's from, but posting this in case it's region locked

Kevin Kline in Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2.

It means I have my doubts about Seven’s sincerity.

My reading comprehension is really suffering today, as I have a massive headache. My two main scums are Wam and bessie (maybe, can't remember at this point) for their role votes. If it wasn't Bessie it was madge. Either way, I want to ask everyone who voted for Janitor and Godfather in both sections their specific reasoning and thought process.

For which role vote are you suspicious of Wam and I?

@bessie at what point did you become aware that the role options had descriptions?

Always. Why?

[Freddino18]

Wow that was way off. Guess it was Wam and Fonti for voting Godfather and Janitor. I know I had a reason for doubting you but now I have no clue why. Tight for time right now, will read back through today or tomorrow with more specific questioning

[madge]

@Madge if you were scum, would you have approached Day 0 differently? And if so, how?

If I was scum I would have worked out which combos I liked and tried to argue for them from a townie perspective.

I'm still kind of surprised that people are treating any one scum role as anathema. my hot take is janitor wouldn't have been that bad. i think what we've got is fine.

obviously, with the rolecop, anyone who pushes the vote onto someone who flips as a PR would look suspicious on that basis.

[moody7277]

The post where I fosed Madge was an overnight catchup post, I may have missed fonti's post voting for Janitor. Fonti's next post is him unvoting Janitor, with the reason that the first power given makes filps more important. I figured that put the issue to rest with him, although Cynical View says this is just scum giving up an unfruitful line.

I understand you wanting consistency from me on this matter, especially give how much weight my language was giving it.

[JC_DADDY25]

@bessie at what point did you become aware that the role options had descriptions?

@JC was your vote sarcastic or genuine?

@Madge if you were scum, would you have approached Day 0 differently? And if so, how?

What does nb mean?

As genuine as a $5 Coach bag.

[fontisian]

Yo, I exist.

[continuing where I left off]

For the roles, I don't really have any context as to what's powerful and what isn't, other than the fact that some people seem to really hate Janitor. I feel like the roleblocker is kind of a dick move, but it seems like it can miss.

Tentative vote for
Roleblocker
and
Godfather

Open to suggestions and explanations, especially as to why Janitor is so hated.

Fred, can you explain what you mean by a "dick move?"

I can understand how janitor can disrupt things, but could a one shot do that much damage?

This feels genuine. It could be genuine and still come from scum, but I think the thought process comes from town more often than not. I like the word "damage" in particular.

I agree with this. I don't mind Rolecop as it's the only thing that doesn't interfere with town's actions in any way. Godfather I think should just always be excluded based on there being two roles (three?) that it can interfere with, and discussing the wifom behind whether mafia would choose those roles in hopes that we choose godfather just creates a discussion wherein it's easy for mafia to identify who has those roles. I would probably give 2-shot Roleblocker over Vengeful due to it being just 2 shots. So ultimately, Roleblocker + Rolecop is where I'm probably voting.

So the game scum won previously was janitor/roleblocker, yeah?

I'm curious why you were cool with both roleblocker and rolecop going to scum. Was roleblocker not relevant in that game? And did you not see how rolecop and roleblocker synergize?


I dig the early the enthusiasm from Swiss, and them getting a townread on JC for being "lost."

Am I reading wrong or is my understanding correct that town roles have yet to be assigned and that scum pick town roles after we all lock in the scum roles by vote?

Ah nope just re-read, scum picks town roles in "pregame" which is prior to D0 and they get randomly assigned

I thought it went D0 votes for scum roles happen, then N0 scum picks town roles for random distribution knowing what scum roles have been picked, but yeah its the opposite order so Booms question actually makes sense

This smells like manipulation. Why would you take the time to ask about the rules in the chat, go and check, and then confirm that you were wrong, instead of just checking in the first place? It's performative.

To booms question, I dont see any reason to give town a doctor over a weak doctor as weak doctor seems to only be a strictly worse version of doctor, so that would be pick one. If masonizer dies when targeting non-town roles Id probably pick that too but thats kind of like a higher risk but higher reward cop, so it would be one of those two depending on how confident I was that I could draw a mason target or dodge a cop investigation respectively.

Allowing two docs in gane creates a possibly unwinnable situation for scum if they both claim and protect each other so thats super no bueno imo from a scum perspective and would not want that. So probably would go with Cop as 3rd pick. Vigilante on the wrong player slot is a huge existential risk to a 2 man scum team and can really throw off endgame calculations


So yeah my final picks would prob be masonizer, cop, weak doc, and then hope my team atleast gets a godfather or roleblocker atleast for some counterplay

Also, what is this?

"If masonizer dies when targeting non-town roles." They don't. Makhaira was literally just on the rules page, they could have checked, and they clearly did check how weak doctor works.

Also, also:
"and then hope my team atleast gets a godfather or roleblocker atleast for some counterplay"

Following:

Swiss I am frozenflame as seven covered in impressive detail

Were those MBTI types guesses? Because I consistently get ENTP on those quizzes with I/E and P/J being very borderline and could go the other way (like 55/45), so that was an impressive guess if it was in fact a guess as Im not sure if I ever discussed MBTI type stuff on smashboards, here, or in the discord

Jealous of heury already finishing their full 3 star clear of MK8, need to get on that, the new tracks are super fun

My first impression was that two shot roleblocker and godfather are the best roles to give scum because roleblocked is shooting in the dark unless we claim and godfather is entirely passive and just need to be taken into account when we parse investigation results. Given scum roleblocker with role cope is a huge mistake though as those roles synergize perfectly. So my current inclination is to vote godfather/2 shot RB but Im open to other ideas. Im not sure I entitely understand vengeful mafia though if someone is willing to explain that in greater detail

My dude, why didn't you reconsider what roles to vote for, when you said that scum!you would be hoping for those same roles?

My answer depends on who the scum team are.

If its a steong scum team and can generally appear town as scum I would go for the vig/mason/weak doc combination and hope the weak doc and Mason target scum and take themselves out and the vig hammwrs town.

If the team is weaker and generally appears more suspicious I would go down the vig/doc/masoniser route.

Noting that Wam may be scum if Frozen is scum, because they picked up the same mason misconception.

[fontisian]

Finally read the setup. Y'all skipped an excellent discussion point.

If you were mafia what town roles would you have given to town? Swiss, sabrar, fomti and Seven save your answers until after the others.

Weak Doc, Vig, Cop, by the way.

Cop is very weak in this setup, and can't get useful info until Day 3. Vig and Weak Doc both have the potential to speed the game up, making the odds of the cop still being alive on Day 3 significantly lower.

What did you get out of these answers?

[fontisian]

Wow that was way off. Guess it was Wam and Fonti for voting Godfather and Janitor. I know I had a reason for doubting you but now I have no clue why. Tight for time right now, will read back through today or tomorrow with more specific questioning

You talk about time being tight a lot, I think.

It might be helpful for you if you forgo talking about it, and just post what and when you can. We should all be aware that everyone has a life outside of the game.

[fontisian]

Why do you think the setup options contain both doc and weak doc? Why is Vig not powerful?

I don't, that is weak doctor/vigilante/masonizer. Scum might give town vig due to the consequenses of it going wrong, whereas cop and doctor don't have a downside as dire.

GF being protected from Vig is a factor but less so

It's more than just "shows up to cops as town"? Well chirp that, I've been assuming what I've always heard about the roles.

unvote Godfather
vote Vengeful

Chirp chirp, motherfucker.

Recommendation: don't talk about reads before scum assign roles.

Assign?

Ignore that have worked out what you meant.

This feels legit. Works as a good point of comparison for an unintentional townslip versus Frozen's. Wam's feels real because it's short and to the point. He doesn't overexplain where he went wrong, he asks a questions, figures out the answer internally, and then clarifies that he doesn't need follow-up from .e

[fontisian]

Everyone exclusively just banging on about mechanics and not playing mafia. At what point did these things become mutually exclusive. Stacked game my ass. Let's just lock in some perks and start lynching.

kinda with you on this tbh but there are some potential gains to be made via the papertrail we create here. Not sure a difference opinion this tho really implicates how stacked the game is, good players can reasonably disagree about the marginal information gains of this meta exercise

Am I reading wrong or is my understanding correct that town roles have yet to be assigned and that scum pick town roles after we all lock in the scum roles by vote?

scumlean

lmao wack, Im literally getting early scumread for misremembering some of the rules and being too lazy to go back and check, its NAI tho I swear I was scum last game when I did it but town this time

Swiss, Ilu.

Vote: Makhaira

[fontisian]

Swiss and Makhaira, strongly not aligned from that post. The salt from Mak was real.

[fontisian]

@Madge if you were scum, would you have approached Day 0 differently? And if so, how?

If I was scum I would have worked out which combos I liked and tried to argue for them from a townie perspective.

I'm still kind of surprised that people are treating any one scum role as anathema. my hot take is janitor wouldn't have been that bad. i think what we've got is fine.

obviously, with the rolecop, anyone who pushes the vote onto someone who flips as a PR would look suspicious on that basis.

If you were scum, and you knew someone was a pr, would you push to yeet them?

[fontisian]

Having more experience playing with Madge, I pay attention to her more than a newer player I'm still trying to figure out. Also, with as much hyperbole as I put down about the role, I didn't really sense there was much of a push for the role. The first post of fonti's you cite is interesting because it looks like reflex to pick those two, which I would surmise means he hasn't had such a truly awful experience with the role.

I used to play a lot of flip-less setups. Not knowing a flip just changes the way you have to scumhunt.

[fontisian]

I agree with this. I don't mind Rolecop as it's the only thing that doesn't interfere with town's actions in any way. Godfather I think should just always be excluded based on there being two roles (three?) that it can interfere with, and discussing the wifom behind whether mafia would choose those roles in hopes that we choose godfather just creates a discussion wherein it's easy for mafia to identify who has those roles. I would probably give 2-shot Roleblocker over Vengeful due to it being just 2 shots. So ultimately, Roleblocker + Rolecop is where I'm probably voting.

So the game scum won previously was janitor/roleblocker, yeah?

I'm curious why you were cool with both roleblocker and rolecop going to scum. Was roleblocker not relevant in that game? And did you not see how rolecop and roleblocker synergize?

Apologies, I see you already answered part of this.

It would be advantegous if everybody could express at least some sort of opinion about each choice and not limiting themselves to one or two.

Y'all aren't thinking about combos enough. Some roles synergize with each other, some don't.

Roleblocker and role cop work together because they offer scum combined utility in identifying and neutering prs.

Roleblocker and vengeful are bad in a weak doc/vig Mylo d2 world, because roleblocker can be used on the doc or vig and vengeful would tighten the already tight numbers.

Godfather and jailer are bad together because they both undermine information that would otherwise be confirmed.

Godfather is bad in general because were guaranteed to have some sort of info role (a well played weak doc is a powerful info role, cop and masonizer are info roles, we'll have 1 to 3 of them in the game).

I think vengeful and jailor are the best play in most worlds, because of the way scum behavior has to shift around a vengeful mafia.

To me, the roleblock-rolecop combo isn't as impactful as [GF + anything] or [Janitor + anything]. We have 3 PRs, while they'd only have 2 RBs for the entire game. You make an interesting point about vengeful though. I could be swayed to vote that over RB or RC. I think I like RB + Veng.

I think question about the roleblocker is still relevant. Was it not used in the game you keep referencing?

[Seven]

I like the directions Sabrar and Fonti are going with Moody and Mak, respectively. Moody seems different than A.I. He isn't paying much attention and his reads don't seem authentic. I agree with Fonti that it looks like Mak was attempting to fake a town slip. The timing, pacing, and wording of the posts don't feel natural. I also think that Fonti is correct that if Mak is scum, Wam is also likely scum due to the similar interpretation of the Mason.

I am open to voting for any of the three, with a preference for Mak.

Vote: Mak

^^ Above post is a video titled "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". Not sure what it's from, but posting this in case it's region locked

Kevin Kline in Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2.

It means I have my doubts about Seven’s sincerity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundament ... tion_error

My reading comprehension is really suffering today, as I have a massive headache. My two main scums are Wam and bessie (maybe, can't remember at this point) for their role votes. If it wasn't Bessie it was madge. Either way, I want to ask everyone who voted for Janitor and Godfather in both sections their specific reasoning and thought process.

For which role vote are you suspicious of Wam and I?

One day I'm going to convince you of my view on the preposition argument.

@bessie at what point did you become aware that the role options had descriptions?

Always. Why?

I have the same concern with you as you have with me. Unlike me, however, I think you actually are someone who makes themselves aware of the details before posting. You seem to always read over all of the rules in a game and often notice information that others have glanced past. Would you say that's accurate?

For that reason, there are two things I have found odd in your content this game:

1) Your misinterpretation of the Janitor
2) Your misconception that town only received two PRs

I initially took number one as you being one of the players who weren't aware you could click the role names, and so had missed that the Janitor was different than normal. Given your answer above, my second theory is that the misinterpretation stemmed from the word "elimination." That is one thing I did change about the setup description, replacement of any instance of the word "lynch" with "elimination." I suspect that you initially interpreted the word as being synonymous with "night kill"?

As for number 2, I have no explanation. Would you say that you having missed that is out of character?

(btw @Swiss the mafia community at large has moved away from using "lynch")

I agree with this. I don't mind Rolecop as it's the only thing that doesn't interfere with town's actions in any way. Godfather I think should just always be excluded based on there being two roles (three?) that it can interfere with, and discussing the wifom behind whether mafia would choose those roles in hopes that we choose godfather just creates a discussion wherein it's easy for mafia to identify who has those roles. I would probably give 2-shot Roleblocker over Vengeful due to it being just 2 shots. So ultimately, Roleblocker + Rolecop is where I'm probably voting.

So the game scum won previously was janitor/roleblocker, yeah?

I'm curious why you were cool with both roleblocker and rolecop going to scum. Was roleblocker not relevant in that game? And did you not see how rolecop and roleblocker synergize?

Apologies, I see you already answered part of this.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Y'all aren't thinking about combos enough. Some roles synergize with each other, some don't.

Roleblocker and role cop work together because they offer scum combined utility in identifying and neutering prs.

Roleblocker and vengeful are bad in a weak doc/vig Mylo d2 world, because roleblocker can be used on the doc or vig and vengeful would tighten the already tight numbers.

Godfather and jailer are bad together because they both undermine information that would otherwise be confirmed.

Godfather is bad in general because were guaranteed to have some sort of info role (a well played weak doc is a powerful info role, cop and masonizer are info roles, we'll have 1 to 3 of them in the game).

I think vengeful and jailor are the best play in most worlds, because of the way scum behavior has to shift around a vengeful mafia.

To me, the roleblock-rolecop combo isn't as impactful as [GF + anything] or [Janitor + anything]. We have 3 PRs, while they'd only have 2 RBs for the entire game. You make an interesting point about vengeful though. I could be swayed to vote that over RB or RC. I think I like RB + Veng.

I think question about the roleblocker is still relevant. Was it not used in the game you keep referencing?

That's correct, we didn't use it. I forgot that we even had it until I went to go look. The motivation behind our pushing for RB there is that we had given town double Docs, so needed a way to prevent a mutual protection infinite. As an aside: In hindsight, I think RB + Vengeful would have been our best combination to have picked yesterDay.

[Swiss]

Our PRs are good, stop trying to throw them away.

Ha, very well. I'll hammer Venge when it gets to L-1.

For my third choice I would probably give them Vigilante since there is a good chance an early shot would take out town. Then I would priority try to eliminate/night kill them day 3 or 4.

For the record, these are the same three choices I would have given.

Im in the middle of playing blood on the clocktower and its making me miss real mafia holy shit you cant use real deduction almost at all in this game and no flip mafia is casual garbage holy fuck

Really? When I played it, it seemed like it was almost purely deduction-based. It was incredibly difficult for me as scum because of it. I was town-read, but it was so easy to be PoEd by the mechanics.

Anyway anyone who voted for janitor or role cop is suss af, hammering rolecop crazy suss and literally "accidentally" hammering last game was probably my only good scum move, giga FOS seven

Vote: Vengeful Mafiate

Ha, it wasn't actually an accident? Gorf damnit.

+ for hammer

Late answers:
- as Mafia I would have given Town Vig, weak Doc and Masoniser. Vig is probably the least disruptive to Mafia, and the combination of Cop+Doc is scary. However Cop is already scary on its own after 2 checks and they are likely to get at least that many as GF or RB is not assured for scum. I think 2 Doc-s protecting each other is not the end of the world as that leaves Mafia to kill everyone around them. However I would have been concerned about the double protection ruining the NK. That leaves Vig, Masoniser and one of the Doc-s. Finally, as Seven mentioned I die as town N1 quite often, so I would have been a good target for a weak Doc, which tilts the balance enough in my selfish view towards it.
- I was leaning towards giving Mafia RB+RC. I think the concerns about that combination are overrated, as Mafia can just simply kill the identified PR instead of blocking them. I think the dangers of Vengeful were downplayed a bit with the likely inclusion of at least 1 non-standard NK.

Now onto other matters. Let's assume that all Mafia participated in the pre-game choice of selecting town PR-s. It is unlikely that none of them read the roles in their entirety or asked the mods for clarification (e.g. Weak Doc is not common in this forum). If they are made aware that the roles can be clicked then probably they would check out scum PR-s as well. So while it is not 100% safe to assume that all Mafia have read the roles and pondered them before D0, there is merit for using that assumption as baseline.
Sidenote: making a fake town!slip requires a significant mental effort from most players in my opinion as you have to consciously disassociate yourself from knowledge that is self-evident to you. Or maybe I'm just projecting.
prepost edit: it is also possible that a scum player initially misread/misinterpreted something, got clarification during pre-game and decided to fake their misinterpretation after (or it was suggested to them). This unfortunately diminishes the validity of some of the following observations.

bessie: bessie has time during the weekend so she would have definitely been aware of the roles and rules. She was apparently unaware how Janitor worked and also thought Town gets only 2 PR-s. Both items are extreme cases of the above where you don't just appear to have forgotten something or made a small mistake in your calculations but showcase a general lack of understanding/ignorance. With all due respect to bessie I don't think this is something that would occur to her and it is also unlikely that a scumbuddy would suggest it to her.

@bessie: just one question, you seriously haven't considered the potential of Cop + Doc together? That combination would undermine your reasoning to select them as Cop is likely to get enough results to be useful.

fontisian: they wrote jailer/jailor instead of janitor here and here, after correctly using the term in a previous post and they also used it correctly after that. I think this is unlikely to be a deliberate slip from scum!fonti given how inconsistent it is, also I would assume that they would have started with the misspelling right away if it were the case. It can be a genuine slip from either alignment but in that case it is somewhat more likely to come from town as scum is more aware of their own roles.

Makhaira: apparently didn't understand at first the Vengeful role and also was in confusion about the order of pre-game choices and assignments. Clarifies later that he didn't know roles were clickable and admits that he has done similar shenanigans as scum in the past. Taking into account his irl profession it is suspicious that he would misread things to that degree.

moody: apparently didn't read roles (not knowing what Vengeful and GF did). I don't think it is in his repertoire to fake that on his own, although it might have been suggested to him by a scum-buddy.

Seven: prepared the setup, played with it before, knows the roles. But then there is this discrepancy that I can't explain:

Reading over Godfather, it's even stronger than I thought. It affects the actions of 4 of the 5 PRs.

@Seven: did you just forget what GF did? Why reread the roles at that point in time?

wam: from here:

I hadn't clocked that the mafia could choose who got which roles until after I read fonts post and went back and checked.

Included for sake of completeness as it is not the same scenario as with the rest of the players. It is possible that distributing the roles would not come up during pre-game, so could be honestly missed by scum.

Highest chance to be town: bessie
Highest chance to be scum: Makhaira

good post
terrible reads

Boom what was the intent behind asking what town roles people would have assigned? Did you get what you were looking for?

has boom answered

FF/Sabrar link me to this town!slip

I would like to remind people that I am not familiar with all of the abbreviations being used and do not wish to constantly ask what one or the other means.

I already am suspicious of a couple of individuals due to their picks and reasoning, but am waiting to hear from everyone before I start asking those people questions. I don't really have anything else to say so early in the day.

as before hate this

Has Wam done anything yet

No. It's personal and doesn't reflect well on me.

Hate this, but like the self prez

Vote Jc
Obvs scum.

Is this because he is taking the naive view on Seven's actions?

We’re not in RVS.

I suppose you're right that the structure of the game means that's the case, but it's such a fun part of the game as we play it here (except for bessie, who doesn't do it for bessie reasons).

+vibe

Hey FF, why did you go after me for conceding to rolecop and not one of the people who actually voted for it?

uhhhhh I didn't hello?

I went after you for pushing janitor, you know know better

Ok, I'm done with role theory.

Vote Janitor
Vote Vengeful

Rolecop/Vengeful is fine.

Let's play some fucking mafia.

gonna need this powerwolf to explain to me how town!fonti believes janitor isnt that bad to deal or at minimum how janitor is less harmful to town prospects than rolecop

still waiting on the explanation btw

+ ff again

I did not realize cop had a 50% chance to be insane thats wild def makes that a shoe in for me if I were scum to give to town

masonizer is also way less volatile than I was expecting, no death on failed recruit and only 2 people can be masonized max per game

how am i the only person to have read the fucking set up

I did not realize cop had a 50% chance to be insane thats wild def makes that a shoe in for me if I were scum to give to town

masonizer is also way less volatile than I was expecting, no death on failed recruit and only 2 people can be masonized max per game

When did you realize this?

+ JC

@Xivii

We're starting with an even number of players. Baseline, we get 2.5 potential missed town sided kills this game. The 0.5 doesn't really matter except that each vig shot or successful doc save adds +0.5 to that count. A vengeful mafia that goes off and allows scum to get an extra kill (which may not happen because an extra kill increases their chances of running into a doc save, if we have them) subtracts 0.5 from the count.

I'm going to dive into how I see mafia for a sec.When viewed as a numbers game, mafia is how many town players we need to not misyeet or miskill in order to win. Baseline, with 2.5 allowed town misses, we need to not kill 6.5 town (for the sake of figuring out how many people town needs to correctly not yeet, always round up). 3 of those town are going to be prs, and therefore easier to townread or let scum shoot. Each vig shot or succesful doc save lowers the number of clears needed by 0.5. A cop can create clears, which subtracts from the number of behavioral clears needed by 1 each. A Mason can create 3 clears, if used well. A weak doc can potentially create a clear each night, if they don't fuck up. A godfather has the potential to ruin all of those info role based clears. A rolecop, especially a day rolecop, allows scum to kill prs before they provide clears, make good shots, or get saves. A roleblocker allows scum to interfere with prs creating clears, or with the prs clearing themselves. A jailer makes interaction analysis harder, and hurts in cases where, say, we fuck up horrible and yeet a pr, but it doesn't really affect the number of clears needed.

With all that is mind, a vengeful mafia only adding 0.5 to the clears needed, and only doing that if we yeet them first or second, is not that bad, in my opinion.

Love this analysis angle. But I get most of my clears behaviorally and janitor really hurts that. I feel like it would give us -2 clears easily.

kinda feel like this is a slight town slip for boom

Explain?

FF I want to give you some leeway because Zen is posting hella different now. But I no likey. No likey at all.
I won't be giving you leeway, but you should know that I want to.
As an aside how I can remember Zen and your posting styles and not remember hydraing with Huery still blows me away. My mind is truly incredibe.

you don't need to give me leeway? appreciate the sentiment tho I guess I mean if you're town we could run this show ez so it would be fun to buddy if justified

I understand if you don't want to give away your read here but if you are willing to explain your zen read in more detail I'd be interested to hear it, not too keen on the slot rn

Zen hasn't done any scumhunting, and he's too careful to make sure to be nice to people.
Zen, deep down, is a savage and likes to win almost as much as me. Why is he focussed on what other people think of him.
Plus he plays loose when town imo

bessie townlean

why? I have the opposite

Vote Jc



Obvs scum.

You’re experienced.

We’re not in RVS.

This post intrigues me

So first game with JC so maybe standard for them but.... I love sarcasm as much as the next person but i felt they were hiding behind the sarcasm a bit too much and using it to avoid giving anything away. So wanted to poke at it and see what the reaction was.

The reaction is odd. I'm not sure how alignment indicative it is but I'm going to sleep on it and come back

types but doesnt really say anything

blah blah blah how to iso who cares

Sabrar not casting a single vote in the role voting phase really, really bothers me, scumlean tbh

Here we go again. I know it's not a popular opinion but I have explained multiple times in the past that the act of voting is not relevant until the last phase of a day. So you can be the tenth person to explain to me why it is scummy if I wait with my vote and not give an opportunity for people to hammer early.

Please explain. I genuinely have no idea what I’ve done.

Watching HaiLOWEEN from the sidelines reinforced my belief that your play is disruptive to Town.

+ for zen sus

Weekend woof!

How does anyone town aligned think giving scum day rolecop is a good idea like hello?????

I gave my reason when I voted. I believe it is a valid reason.

For mafia perks, I think the Day Rolecop, because I don’t think it will be all that useful. I’m expecting at least one of the power roles to claim early no matter how hard I protest.

bessie: bessie has time during the weekend so she would have definitely been aware of the roles and rules. She was apparently unaware how Janitor worked and also thought Town gets only 2 PR-s. Both items are extreme cases of the above where you don't just appear to have forgotten something or made a small mistake in your calculations but showcase a general lack of understanding/ignorance. With all due respect to bessie I don't think this is something that would occur to her and it is also unlikely that a scumbuddy would suggest it to her.

sad bessie.PNG

@bessie: just one question, you seriously haven't considered the potential of Cop + Doc together? That combination would undermine your reasoning to select them as Cop is likely to get enough results to be useful.

Yes I have. For the Doctor to protect the Cop, the cop would need to claim which I’m sure will happen early anyway especially if it is Madge. This gives mafia a better chance of hitting the Doctor with a kill, role cop, or block. The Cop won’t be useful until they have at least two, maybe three results to make an educated guess at their sanity. Or they will need to have investigated a flipped player. I just don’t see how this role is all that great is a small game. And it’s also relative as I would prefer to have any of the other three roles.

I actually forgot that the roles (Cop, Mason, Godfather) weren't in their typical form until we started playing. The only one I remembered clearly was Janitor as it's the role I had.

I am skeptical of this claim as your D0 discussion implies otherwise. However, I checked the linked game, and the wording is identical.

To start off, the last time I played this, there was this legendary scum player that plotted out at pre-game almost everything that was to happen. They gave town Weak Doctor and Vigilante, identified who was who based on Day 0 discussion, and manipulated a situation where three townies were killed N1, and endgamed with a misyeet Day 2. I don't think I've ever seen such masterful scum play before or after. Just overall brilliant.

Yes. I thought so.

I already am suspicious of a couple of individuals due to their picks and reasoning, but am waiting to hear from everyone before I start asking those people questions. I don't really have anything else to say so early in the day.

Waiting to give opinions until others give theirs. FoS.

vote Bessie

I recognise I have not responded to your points back to me

Awesome! Reasons?

Say why anyway

Interesting. You demand Sabrar’s reasoning but have not given your own. FoS.

Actually, who is using the GoJoe thread in this game?

I know that this will be counterintuitive for players new to this forum, but using the Goejoe thread is NAI (non-alignment indicative). It will be used freely by players of any alignment, mods, and spectators.

That separates the threads alphabetically?

It lists all the posts in this tread only alphabetically by poster.

sort by author.png

Bessie what's the value to you in an FoS?
+ for using it after i openly said its useless

Bessie is not playing, at all, as I expected her to. Same as Zen. She's more cautious, less amenable and less reasonable imo.

"Interesting. You demand Sabrar’s reasoning but have not given your own. FoS."

This is crazy. FoS for asking someone their reasoning because i haven't yet done it. Stifles discussion and an easy way to throw barbs at me - which I think she's only doing because I've called it that her vibe is off. ESPECIALLY since she knew i was out of the country, with low activity, and openly recognised that I hadnt gone more into detail on her. Feels OMGUSY (oh my god you suck for voting me)

Please explain. I genuinely have no idea what I’ve done.

Watching HaiLOWEEN from the sidelines reinforced my belief that your play is disruptive to Town.

Oh, so you don't like playing with me? I don't think that reflects poorly on you. We all have people that grind our gears. Is my play this game similar to AI in your view?

Sabrar not casting a single vote in the role voting phase really, really bothers me, scumlean tbh

Here we go again. I know it's not a popular opinion but I have explained multiple times in the past that the act of voting is not relevant until the last phase of a day. So you can be the tenth person to explain to me why it is scummy if I wait with my vote and not give an opportunity for people to hammer early.

I agree with this but only in the case where the eliminations only happen in the last phase of the day. In this case, we were deciding roles by majority elimination with an arbitrary deadline. So the expectation that the decisions would be made at the last minute doesn't apply here. Even after it was clear that several people had this perspective (through their stated desire and willingness to wrap up), you abstained from voting. You also abstained after the first role was hammered, which was direct evidence against your belief that only the last phase of the day was relevant.

I actually forgot that the roles (Cop, Mason, Godfather) weren't in their typical form until we started playing. The only one I remembered clearly was Janitor as it's the role I had.

I am skeptical of this claim as your D0 discussion implies otherwise.

To start off, the last time I played this, there was this legendary scum player that plotted out at pre-game almost everything that was to happen. They gave town Weak Doctor and Vigilante, identified who was who based on Day 0 discussion, and manipulated a situation where three townies were killed N1, and endgamed with a misyeet Day 2. I don't think I've ever seen such masterful scum play before or after. Just overall brilliant.

Could you be specific about where it implies otherwise?

Actually, who is using the GoJoe thread in this game?

I know that this will be counterintuitive for players new to this forum, but using the Goejoe thread is NAI (non-alignment indicative). It will be used freely by players of any alignment, mods, and spectators.

It took me a while to parse what JC was saying. He wasn't implying that using the Gojoe thread was alignment indicative. He was asking who used it so he could know which players were safe to search.

I would like to remind people that I am not familiar with all of the abbreviations being used and do not wish to constantly ask what one or the other means.

I resonate with this. Mafia is full of its own lexicon, however, and there's no getting around just learning what terms mean as you go. We've all had to do it and continue to do so as we come across new terms and acronyms from different communities. IIoA = Information Instead of Analysis. It's when a player is simply describing what is happening without interpreting what it implies in terms of motivation or alignment. Let me know if there are any other ones you don't know.

Low content post considering the words types.
"I don't think that reflects poorly on you." feels scummy

JC is acting similar to what I saw him do in AI, so he leans town right now
Mak looks like they're trying to get interactions going with people, but Cynical View is wondering if it's superficial stuff, lean scum
bessie is looking to be in classic form right now, town
Madge still has the strike against her for D0 being friendly to the idea of giving scum Janitor, but I'll wait for more content D1 before judging

Apparently I'm going to have to get a gestalt read on Swiss instead of my usual post-by-post analysis, but he's seeming appropriately inquisitive right now.

Sabrar's interpretation of Seven's gameplay is something I got a mouthful of in AI, so sympathy points there.

commenting more here because I'vr had almost no interaction with you.

Could you be specific about where it implies otherwise?

No. But you have 2 1/2 posts where you discuss roles before you made your comment about rereading Godfather. My feeling is that you as a player would have read the roles more carefully before discussing strategy.

Meta points:
I doubt you create the game you intend on running without fully understanding the roles. Your attention to detail and balance as a mod is meticulous and most admirable.
Also, you knew the roles were behind spoilers, so you can’t use the excuse others are using, that they didn’t know the roles were clickable.

this is good

Vote: Rolecop

I'm leaning towards the janitor for my other choice tbh. Yeah it sucks to not be sure but there's a 1/3 chance that the first mafia we kill is the janitor and it is moot.

madge plz explain all this plz respond plz

I explained this in a later post on d0, I am not inclined to repeat myself.

I would never give them a cop and a doctor of either stripe, obviously.

were you aware that cop had a 50% chance to be insane when you posted this?

yes, and i honestly don't see the big deal. insane still gives you information, after all. it's not like there's a chance for naive/paranoid. yes i understand it's strictly worse than a known sanity.

---

i will stand by the fact that all the roles suck for scum, there was no "one shot watcher" in their pool, like seriously! day rolecop, extra kill, janitor, it's all scary

sabrar and seven are both in my tentative townpool for this morning.

good post

I'd like more re: zen/seven town please
+vibe madge

Could you be specific about where it implies otherwise?

No. But you have 2 1/2 posts where you discuss roles

Abstracting my comments as 2 & 1/2 role-discussion posts is misleading, however, hence why I asked for the specifics. In my first post, the roles I discussed with specificity were Weak Doctor, Vigilante, and Janitor. These three roles were salient in my mind as they were what generated the flash scum win. I did not recall the specific details of the Godfather, as indicated in my second post. I will note that I also wasn't aware that Vengeful provided a second-night kill at this point. I was under the impression that it allowed them an immediate shot upon their elimination. The reason I went to go look at the roles in post #3 is because Mak asked for an explanation of Vengeful. I read it, saw that it was different than I thought, and decided to also read through the other roles.

Side-note: I actually didn't even remember that in the previous game, scum gave out dual doctors and that the second role they received was RB until I went back to browse through the scum chat.

before you made your comment about rereading Godfather. My feeling is that you as a player would have read the roles more carefully before discussing strategy.

Meta points:
I doubt you create the game you intend on running without fully understanding the roles. Your attention to detail and balance as a mod is meticulous and most admirable.
Also, you knew the roles were behind spoilers, so you can’t use the excuse others are using, that they didn’t know the roles were clickable.

I appreciate the compliment! However, these assumptions are based on an overestimation of how much attention I give to things prior to when they need my attention. I didn't make this setup, I just knew that I enjoyed playing it and thought it would be fun to play here. I did the minimal work necessary when making the sign-up thread, and only would have gotten into specific details once it was time to run. Likewise, in my intro post, my priority was to provide what I learned from the previous game before people started getting into discussion too heavily. I hadn't thought too much about the roles that I wanted to give scum yet, hence why I hadn't voted until later when I made my analysis post.

I've previously discussed how I prioritize my attention with LaserGuy here:

@Laser, I cannot express how much multi-tasking is not my thing. My brain just doesn't work the way yours does, I can only have one or two windows open in my mind at the time, everything else is made a background process. I'm busy irl and once bessie flipped, the game seemed pretty much solved to me, so I minimized this game in my mind. When minimized, I just let me thoughts flow as they come and don't really pay attention to details like numbers since I know other people (like yourself) will work it out. I'm sorry that's just a limitation of mine, switching between windows has a higher than normal cost for me than most people I think because I'm oversensitive to stimuli. When in a new window or environment, there is an overwhelming flood of information and I cannot be until all I've organized all of it, hard to explain. But for this reason I have to keep non-priority tasks in the background on skim mode, where even something as small as "counting" escapes my faculties.

Again low content, but zen's on the backfoot and this is better than other osts

@Sabrar

I'm sorry for pushing to end d0 early. I didn't realize you were holding back on which roles you were going to vote for.

dslike apology

Having more experience playing with Madge, I pay attention to her more than a newer player I'm still trying to figure out.

This implies that you haven't noticed the vote at all.

Also, with as much hyperbole as I put down about the role, I didn't really sense there was much of a push for the role. The first post of fonti's you cite is interesting because it looks like reflex to pick those two, which I would surmise means he hasn't had such a truly awful experience with the role.

This is justification for not reacting to the vote even if you had noticed it. So which is it? Why give 2 answers that cannot both be true?

mans on fire

^^ Above post is a video titled "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". Not sure what it's from, but posting this in case it's region locked

Kevin Kline in Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2.

It means I have my doubts about Seven’s sincerity.

My reading comprehension is really suffering today, as I have a massive headache. My two main scums are Wam and bessie (maybe, can't remember at this point) for their role votes. If it wasn't Bessie it was madge. Either way, I want to ask everyone who voted for Janitor and Godfather in both sections their specific reasoning and thought process.

For which role vote are you suspicious of Wam and I?

@bessie at what point did you become aware that the role options had descriptions?

Always. Why?

again good post

i will however post separately about your bad posts not inc points made above

Wow that was way off. Guess it was Wam and Fonti for voting Godfather and Janitor. I know I had a reason for doubting you but now I have no clue why. Tight for time right now, will read back through today or tomorrow with more specific questioning

town vibe

Yo, I exist.

[continuing where I left off]

For the roles, I don't really have any context as to what's powerful and what isn't, other than the fact that some people seem to really hate Janitor. I feel like the roleblocker is kind of a dick move, but it seems like it can miss.

Tentative vote for
Roleblocker
and
Godfather

Open to suggestions and explanations, especially as to why Janitor is so hated.

Fred, can you explain what you mean by a "dick move?"

I can understand how janitor can disrupt things, but could a one shot do that much damage?

This feels genuine. It could be genuine and still come from scum, but I think the thought process comes from town more often than not. I like the word "damage" in particular.

I agree with this. I don't mind Rolecop as it's the only thing that doesn't interfere with town's actions in any way. Godfather I think should just always be excluded based on there being two roles (three?) that it can interfere with, and discussing the wifom behind whether mafia would choose those roles in hopes that we choose godfather just creates a discussion wherein it's easy for mafia to identify who has those roles. I would probably give 2-shot Roleblocker over Vengeful due to it being just 2 shots. So ultimately, Roleblocker + Rolecop is where I'm probably voting.

So the game scum won previously was janitor/roleblocker, yeah?

I'm curious why you were cool with both roleblocker and rolecop going to scum. Was roleblocker not relevant in that game? And did you not see how rolecop and roleblocker synergize?


I dig the early the enthusiasm from Swiss, and them getting a townread on JC for being "lost."

Am I reading wrong or is my understanding correct that town roles have yet to be assigned and that scum pick town roles after we all lock in the scum roles by vote?

Ah nope just re-read, scum picks town roles in "pregame" which is prior to D0 and they get randomly assigned

I thought it went D0 votes for scum roles happen, then N0 scum picks town roles for random distribution knowing what scum roles have been picked, but yeah its the opposite order so Booms question actually makes sense

This smells like manipulation. Why would you take the time to ask about the rules in the chat, go and check, and then confirm that you were wrong, instead of just checking in the first place? It's performative.

To booms question, I dont see any reason to give town a doctor over a weak doctor as weak doctor seems to only be a strictly worse version of doctor, so that would be pick one. If masonizer dies when targeting non-town roles Id probably pick that too but thats kind of like a higher risk but higher reward cop, so it would be one of those two depending on how confident I was that I could draw a mason target or dodge a cop investigation respectively.

Allowing two docs in gane creates a possibly unwinnable situation for scum if they both claim and protect each other so thats super no bueno imo from a scum perspective and would not want that. So probably would go with Cop as 3rd pick. Vigilante on the wrong player slot is a huge existential risk to a 2 man scum team and can really throw off endgame calculations


So yeah my final picks would prob be masonizer, cop, weak doc, and then hope my team atleast gets a godfather or roleblocker atleast for some counterplay

Also, what is this?

"If masonizer dies when targeting non-town roles." They don't. Makhaira was literally just on the rules page, they could have checked, and they clearly did check how weak doctor works.

Also, also:
"and then hope my team atleast gets a godfather or roleblocker atleast for some counterplay"

Following:

Swiss I am frozenflame as seven covered in impressive detail

Were those MBTI types guesses? Because I consistently get ENTP on those quizzes with I/E and P/J being very borderline and could go the other way (like 55/45), so that was an impressive guess if it was in fact a guess as Im not sure if I ever discussed MBTI type stuff on smashboards, here, or in the discord

Jealous of heury already finishing their full 3 star clear of MK8, need to get on that, the new tracks are super fun

My first impression was that two shot roleblocker and godfather are the best roles to give scum because roleblocked is shooting in the dark unless we claim and godfather is entirely passive and just need to be taken into account when we parse investigation results. Given scum roleblocker with role cope is a huge mistake though as those roles synergize perfectly. So my current inclination is to vote godfather/2 shot RB but Im open to other ideas. Im not sure I entitely understand vengeful mafia though if someone is willing to explain that in greater detail

My dude, why didn't you reconsider what roles to vote for, when you said that scum!you would be hoping for those same roles?

My answer depends on who the scum team are.

If its a steong scum team and can generally appear town as scum I would go for the vig/mason/weak doc combination and hope the weak doc and Mason target scum and take themselves out and the vig hammwrs town.

If the team is weaker and generally appears more suspicious I would go down the vig/doc/masoniser route.

Noting that Wam may be scum if Frozen is scum, because they picked up the same mason misconception.

town vibe for "yo i exist" and ++ damage
more on mak/ff please

Everyone exclusively just banging on about mechanics and not playing mafia. At what point did these things become mutually exclusive. Stacked game my ass. Let's just lock in some perks and start lynching.

kinda with you on this tbh but there are some potential gains to be made via the papertrail we create here. Not sure a difference opinion this tho really implicates how stacked the game is, good players can reasonably disagree about the marginal information gains of this meta exercise

scumlean

lmao wack, Im literally getting early scumread for misremembering some of the rules and being too lazy to go back and check, its NAI tho I swear I was scum last game when I did it but town this time

Swiss, Ilu.

Vote: Makhaira

comments on this now I'm flipping on Mak read pls

Swiss and Makhaira, strongly not aligned from that post. The salt from Mak was real.

odd

@Madge if you were scum, would you have approached Day 0 differently? And if so, how?

If I was scum I would have worked out which combos I liked and tried to argue for them from a townie perspective.

I'm still kind of surprised that people are treating any one scum role as anathema. my hot take is janitor wouldn't have been that bad. i think what we've got is fine.

obviously, with the rolecop, anyone who pushes the vote onto someone who flips as a PR would look suspicious on that basis.

If you were scum, and you knew someone was a pr, would you push to yeet them?

good

I like the directions Sabrar and Fonti are going with Moody and Mak, respectively. Moody seems different than A.I. He isn't paying much attention and his reads don't seem authentic. I agree with Fonti that it looks like Mak was attempting to fake a town slip. The timing, pacing, and wording of the posts don't feel natural. I also think that Fonti is correct that if Mak is scum, Wam is also likely scum due to the similar interpretation of the Mason.

I am open to voting for any of the three, with a preference for Mak.

Vote: Mak

^^ Above post is a video titled "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". Not sure what it's from, but posting this in case it's region locked

Kevin Kline in Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2.

It means I have my doubts about Seven’s sincerity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundament ... tion_error

My reading comprehension is really suffering today, as I have a massive headache. My two main scums are Wam and bessie (maybe, can't remember at this point) for their role votes. If it wasn't Bessie it was madge. Either way, I want to ask everyone who voted for Janitor and Godfather in both sections their specific reasoning and thought process.

For which role vote are you suspicious of Wam and I?

One day I'm going to convince you of my view on the preposition argument.

@bessie at what point did you become aware that the role options had descriptions?

Always. Why?

I have the same concern with you as you have with me. Unlike me, however, I think you actually are someone who makes themselves aware of the details before posting. You seem to always read over all of the rules in a game and often notice information that others have glanced past. Would you say that's accurate?

For that reason, there are two things I have found odd in your content this game:

1) Your misinterpretation of the Janitor
2) Your misconception that town only received two PRs

I initially took number one as you being one of the players who weren't aware you could click the role names, and so had missed that the Janitor was different than normal. Given your answer above, my second theory is that the misinterpretation stemmed from the word "elimination." That is one thing I did change about the setup description, replacement of any instance of the word "lynch" with "elimination." I suspect that you initially interpreted the word as being synonymous with "night kill"?

As for number 2, I have no explanation. Would you say that you having missed that is out of character?

(btw @Swiss the mafia community at large has moved away from using "lynch")

So the game scum won previously was janitor/roleblocker, yeah?

I'm curious why you were cool with both roleblocker and rolecop going to scum. Was roleblocker not relevant in that game? And did you not see how rolecop and roleblocker synergize?

Apologies, I see you already answered part of this.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

To me, the roleblock-rolecop combo isn't as impactful as [GF + anything] or [Janitor + anything]. We have 3 PRs, while they'd only have 2 RBs for the entire game. You make an interesting point about vengeful though. I could be swayed to vote that over RB or RC. I think I like RB + Veng.

I think question about the roleblocker is still relevant. Was it not used in the game you keep referencing?

That's correct, we didn't use it. I forgot that we even had it until I went to go look. The motivation behind our pushing for RB there is that we had given town double Docs, so needed a way to prevent a mutual protection infinite. As an aside: In hindsight, I think RB + Vengeful would have been our best combination to have picked yesterDay.

Now this is a great post

disagree with reasoning for bessie sus, but I like to see it
I will try to avoid lynch sorry - habit.

Because of the post i quoted with 'scumlean' earlier. Is that the town!slip post?
Thoughts on his recent posts?

[Swiss]

1. Boomfrog lurky null
2. Wam scumleanny
3. Swiss godfather
4. Mak townlean
5. Fred null town
6. Madge null town
7. Seven scumlean
8. moody need to check
9. JC town
10. Fonti town
11. bessie scumlean
12. Sabrar townlean

I would kill (do we use kill? whats the word? kill is too vague) Zen/Bessie/Wam. No preference.

[Swiss]

Woof! I’m here! Sorry for not posting yesterday. I got home from work and was going to play Kingdom Eighties for a half an hour and then dedicate the remainder of my evening to mafia, but I had to unexpectedly go out and I was tired and forgot when I got home.

Daily bark!

On a more serious note I'm very much against giving scum Janitor, the rest we can talk about.

Ok, I’ve read through the first couple pages and I don’t get what’s so great about the janitor. It appears there are no indies in the game, and no town or mafia roles that don’t flip as part of an ability. If a player flips without an alignment reveal, can’t we just assume they are town?

11. bessie
I quote "Swiss, If fonti was our leader, you were our mastermind. You played an excellent game, all your reads were correct. I am sorry that I didn't deliver for you in the end, perhaps next time. Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit."
Seems I haven't lost my touch. Though I truly have no memory of returning in 2021.
Breakdown every player in depth for me, please. I know I can count on detail from you.

This won’t be in depth because I want to bark through all 4 pages of content tonight. Here’s my off-the-cuff gut feelings about each. Will expand on anyone upon request, or as time permits.


bessie – The puppiest puppy in puppyland. Notoriously townie meta. On the old xkcd site she was impossible to vote off because of her towniness. Decent player. Does not play during working hours or from phone, with special exception that she will try to be on near deadline. Does not do behavior-type reads.

BoomFrog – bessie’s unrequitted love from afar <3. Intelligent, cunning, aggressive, crafty, everything you want in a mafia player. Plays similarly as town or scum, which is to play as scummy as possible without being scum read.

fonti – One of the strongest players with whom I have played mafia. Excellent as any alignment. My sentiments here:

Going through the barklog, starting at Page 9.

@Anyone: who is Fonti and what's his scum game like? Is he considered a strong scum player?

I don’t have a lot of experience playing anywhere but xkcd (and Smashboards, after we lost our original forum and Ranmaru invited us to play there), but fontisian is one of the best players I know. Her wolf game is unbelievably sharp, see Things I Like Mafia on Smashboards (I’m Synchronicity hydra with Seven). And she’s fun I remember telling Seven: I’m sad because I don’t think I’m BoomFrog’s favorite person to play with anymore.

Fred – New to mafia. I have high hopes for him, because his early games indicate that he is good at analysis. I also think that his alignment will be easy to deduce as the game progresses.

Heury – One of the most pleasant people to play with. He is good natured with no fits, name calling, or raging at others. He is townie as scum and scummy as town.

Pre post edit:
Madge – My arch-nemesis. We are so completely opposite in our playstyles that I scum read and tunnel her every game. Madge can be extremely analytical and post good analysis if she has time. If she doesn’t have time, she is unapologetic about not reading every post and will sheep someone she trusts or vote how she feels. This irritates me to no end. I love her dearly.

JC – I have only played one game with him, but I find him a good player with good instincts, and am happy he joined our community.

Makharia – Mak is FrozenFlame. He’s an excellent player as any alignment but is often behind because he is busy IRL. I very much like his style.

moody – His style is very low key consistent as any alignment, and his dry wit is like mine. He has a scummy meta and tends to get eliminated early because of it. But his meta is deceptive because he is an excellent player and if he is town and makes it to end game he will provide valuable analysis. He also tends to use night actions well.

Sabrar – My best mafia bud ever. He was considered one of, if not the best player on the old xkcd site. Analytical, intelligent, computer-for-brain, we usually depend on him to crunch the numbers. I have argued longer and harder with him than with any other player, including plytho. And I cherish every argument because he is my favorite person with whom to play.

Seven – Seven is Xivii/Zen. An amalgamation of everyone with whom I have ever played since he likes to adopt different styles for different games. Everything I have said about everyone else applies to him too. He is most like BoomFrog. I would fear him if I wasn’t me.

Swiss – A fellow Labrador Retriever. Enough said.

Wam – Wam was the IC player in my first game ever (Matrix6 Newbie), if I remember correctly. He is outstanding and very clever as scum and not afraid to take risks. I was scum with him once and he had no problems fake claiming and bussing if necessary. I think we won that game. Good town player but will often fall behind because he is busy IRL.

I know I remember your name, but not much about you. Can I trust your reads today?

Noting this for reasons.

@bessie: If you have Unmafia archived, that would be the stuff of nightmares re Janitor.

I don’t need the archive it’s on the Wayback Machine!
https://web.archive.org/web/20170802171 ... f6920311a0
One of my first games, I was in a 3-way gunfight at the end and chose wrong. A habit I have yet to break.

And I don’t agree about the janitor, but I am waiting for Sabrar to explain to me where I am wrong.

Best scum buddy is Fonti.

Yes, I know (see fonti quote above). Sigh.
sad bessie.PNG




viewtopic.php?p=56789#p56789
Will respond to this post by Seven later. I’m trying to bark up before dinner.

Loving Seven's analysis despite the MBTI stuff thrown in.

Exactly the reaction I would expect from an ISTJ.

You have a thread where you post spoilered thoughts on the game.

Isn't that a huge cheating risk? Even accidentally, if it pops up with a search.

I'm going to set a reminder for a few weeks from now to find a better way to do that, if that's OK with you all.

.

It is insanity and I am staying away from it.
They should make a discord room and not invite active players.

I understand your concern and caution. I would like to discuss this post-game, after you both have had an opportunity to experience the magic of the Gojoe thread. Reading it on the old form was what persuaded many of us to start playing.

It was heavily used on the old xkcd forum and I do not remember any cheating allegations because of it (there may have been before my time). Few accidents did happen when a player had to sub out due to reading a spoiler but the entertainment it provided was far more beneficial.

There was only one during my time, which sucked because the setup was very clever. And it was by a new player, and I think new to the forum.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170609154 ... &start=360

Were those MBTI types guesses? Because I consistently get ENTP on those quizzes with I/E and P/J being very borderline and could go the other way (like 55/45), so that was an impressive guess if it was in fact a guess as Im not sure if I ever discussed MBTI type stuff on smashboards, here, or in the discord

You are so totally an NT.


Well that was two hours. I gotta feed my dog. More later.

[Swiss]

^^ Above post is a video titled "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". Not sure what it's from, but posting this in case it's region locked

Kevin Kline in Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2.

It means I have my doubts about Seven’s sincerity.

My reading comprehension is really suffering today, as I have a massive headache. My two main scums are Wam and bessie (maybe, can't remember at this point) for their role votes. If it wasn't Bessie it was madge. Either way, I want to ask everyone who voted for Janitor and Godfather in both sections their specific reasoning and thought process.

For which role vote are you suspicious of Wam and I?

@bessie at what point did you become aware that the role options had descriptions?

Always. Why?

"On this forum we love talking about setup and mechanics. And it’s D0 so we aren’t eliminating today anyway. And we should always have lots of talking."
Talking about *what* Bessie

"Swiss wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:46 am
@mod why did Huery replace
Noting this for now, because I think it is odd you would ask this."

Crazy to me. Why would you 1) care that I asked and 2) have an opinion on it

"Seven posted his first. How was I going to follow that?
I have given you my opinions of everyone’s strengths and weaknesses as a player. If you have any specific questions ask me, otherwise I don’t know what you’re expecting."

As I mentioned, this is defensive.
Dislike

Finally read the setup. Y'all skipped an excellent discussion point.

If you were mafia what town roles would you have given to town? Swiss, sabrar, fomti and Seven save your answers until after the others.

@bessie @Madge @JC, could you respond to this if you haven't yet?

Cop and Doctor.

good

Sorry BoomFrog I missed your question yesterday because I was hurrying to get through everything and it wasn't directly directed at me. If the content level remains workable I will be able to play in my usual way of intensely contemplating every work in every post.

Feels like building a get out of jail free card to me "IF IT REMAINS....i will play in my usual way"
So if we call her out for playing different to her town meta - she has a free card to play.

[Swiss]

^that was part 2, this is part 1

I fucking hate this forum so much. I wasn't ready to post.

Woof! I’m here! Sorry for not posting yesterday. I got home from work and was going to play Kingdom Eighties for a half an hour and then dedicate the remainder of my evening to mafia, but I had to unexpectedly go out and I was tired and forgot when I got home.

Daily bark!

On a more serious note I'm very much against giving scum Janitor, the rest we can talk about.

Ok, I’ve read through the first couple pages and I don’t get what’s so great about the janitor. It appears there are no indies in the game, and no town or mafia roles that don’t flip as part of an ability. If a player flips without an alignment reveal, can’t we just assume they are town?

11. bessie
I quote "Swiss, If fonti was our leader, you were our mastermind. You played an excellent game, all your reads were correct. I am sorry that I didn't deliver for you in the end, perhaps next time. Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit."
Seems I haven't lost my touch. Though I truly have no memory of returning in 2021.
Breakdown every player in depth for me, please. I know I can count on detail from you.

This won’t be in depth because I want to bark through all 4 pages of content tonight. Here’s my off-the-cuff gut feelings about each. Will expand on anyone upon request, or as time permits.


bessie – The puppiest puppy in puppyland. Notoriously townie meta. On the old xkcd site she was impossible to vote off because of her towniness. Decent player. Does not play during working hours or from phone, with special exception that she will try to be on near deadline. Does not do behavior-type reads.

BoomFrog – bessie’s unrequitted love from afar <3. Intelligent, cunning, aggressive, crafty, everything you want in a mafia player. Plays similarly as town or scum, which is to play as scummy as possible without being scum read.

fonti – One of the strongest players with whom I have played mafia. Excellent as any alignment. My sentiments here:

Going through the barklog, starting at Page 9.

@Anyone: who is Fonti and what's his scum game like? Is he considered a strong scum player?

I don’t have a lot of experience playing anywhere but xkcd (and Smashboards, after we lost our original forum and Ranmaru invited us to play there), but fontisian is one of the best players I know. Her wolf game is unbelievably sharp, see Things I Like Mafia on Smashboards (I’m Synchronicity hydra with Seven). And she’s fun I remember telling Seven: I’m sad because I don’t think I’m BoomFrog’s favorite person to play with anymore.

Fred – New to mafia. I have high hopes for him, because his early games indicate that he is good at analysis. I also think that his alignment will be easy to deduce as the game progresses.

Heury – One of the most pleasant people to play with. He is good natured with no fits, name calling, or raging at others. He is townie as scum and scummy as town.

Pre post edit:
Madge – My arch-nemesis. We are so completely opposite in our playstyles that I scum read and tunnel her every game. Madge can be extremely analytical and post good analysis if she has time. If she doesn’t have time, she is unapologetic about not reading every post and will sheep someone she trusts or vote how she feels. This irritates me to no end. I love her dearly.

JC – I have only played one game with him, but I find him a good player with good instincts, and am happy he joined our community.

Makharia – Mak is FrozenFlame. He’s an excellent player as any alignment but is often behind because he is busy IRL. I very much like his style.

moody – His style is very low key consistent as any alignment, and his dry wit is like mine. He has a scummy meta and tends to get eliminated early because of it. But his meta is deceptive because he is an excellent player and if he is town and makes it to end game he will provide valuable analysis. He also tends to use night actions well.

Sabrar – My best mafia bud ever. He was considered one of, if not the best player on the old xkcd site. Analytical, intelligent, computer-for-brain, we usually depend on him to crunch the numbers. I have argued longer and harder with him than with any other player, including plytho. And I cherish every argument because he is my favorite person with whom to play.

Seven – Seven is Xivii/Zen. An amalgamation of everyone with whom I have ever played since he likes to adopt different styles for different games. Everything I have said about everyone else applies to him too. He is most like BoomFrog. I would fear him if I wasn’t me.

Swiss – A fellow Labrador Retriever. Enough said.

Wam – Wam was the IC player in my first game ever (Matrix6 Newbie), if I remember correctly. He is outstanding and very clever as scum and not afraid to take risks. I was scum with him once and he had no problems fake claiming and bussing if necessary. I think we won that game. Good town player but will often fall behind because he is busy IRL.

I know I remember your name, but not much about you. Can I trust your reads today?

Noting this for reasons.

@bessie: If you have Unmafia archived, that would be the stuff of nightmares re Janitor.

I don’t need the archive it’s on the Wayback Machine!
https://web.archive.org/web/20170802171 ... f6920311a0
One of my first games, I was in a 3-way gunfight at the end and chose wrong. A habit I have yet to break.

And I don’t agree about the janitor, but I am waiting for Sabrar to explain to me where I am wrong.

Best scum buddy is Fonti.

Yes, I know (see fonti quote above). Sigh.
sad bessie.PNG




viewtopic.php?p=56789#p56789
Will respond to this post by Seven later. I’m trying to bark up before dinner.

Loving Seven's analysis despite the MBTI stuff thrown in.

Exactly the reaction I would expect from an ISTJ.

You have a thread where you post spoilered thoughts on the game.

Isn't that a huge cheating risk? Even accidentally, if it pops up with a search.

I'm going to set a reminder for a few weeks from now to find a better way to do that, if that's OK with you all.

.

It is insanity and I am staying away from it.
They should make a discord room and not invite active players.

I understand your concern and caution. I would like to discuss this post-game, after you both have had an opportunity to experience the magic of the Gojoe thread. Reading it on the old form was what persuaded many of us to start playing.

It was heavily used on the old xkcd forum and I do not remember any cheating allegations because of it (there may have been before my time). Few accidents did happen when a player had to sub out due to reading a spoiler but the entertainment it provided was far more beneficial.

There was only one during my time, which sucked because the setup was very clever. And it was by a new player, and I think new to the forum.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170609154 ... &start=360

Were those MBTI types guesses? Because I consistently get ENTP on those quizzes with I/E and P/J being very borderline and could go the other way (like 55/45), so that was an impressive guess if it was in fact a guess as Im not sure if I ever discussed MBTI type stuff on smashboards, here, or in the discord

You are so totally an NT.


Well that was two hours. I gotta feed my dog. More later.

Ok, I’ve read through the first couple pages and I don’t get what’s so great about the janitor. It appears there are no indies in the game, and no town or mafia roles that don’t flip as part of an ability. If a player flips without an alignment reveal, can’t we just assume they are town?

Pro janitor, but has read the roles clearly.

"Noting this for reasons."
What reasons?

But that^ there is the only content she posts, run down of players was "okay". Everything else is just general chat. No focus.


as an aside

"Makhaira wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:15 pm
Am I reading wrong or is my understanding correct that town roles have yet to be assigned and that scum pick town roles after we all lock in the scum roles by vote?"

yeah this was a terrible post

Daily bark!

Isn't the saying that you can always teach an old dog new tricks? If you're town and town wins I'll give you a Scooby Snack.

roh boy.jpg

In this game Janitor can only clean someone who we yeet, it is very different from a night-Janitor. We want to know whether we were right because we need a known scum-flip to identify connections (or in case of a town-flip we want to see who pushed it for nefarious reasons).

Ok I understand now. I was thinking it was something mafia would use on town, not on themselves. Yeah, janitor isn’t happening.

Everyone exclusively just banging on about mechanics and not playing mafia. At what point did these things become mutually exclusive. Stacked game my ass. Let's just lock in some perks and start lynching.

On this forum we love talking about setup and mechanics. And it’s D0 so we aren’t eliminating today anyway. And we should always have lots of talking.

@mod why did Huery replace

Noting this for now, because I think it is odd you would ask this.

Bessie mega post null
I was hoping to be wow'd

Seven posted his first. How was I going to follow that?
I have given you my opinions of everyone’s strengths and weaknesses as a player. If you have any specific questions ask me, otherwise I don’t know what you’re expecting.

There was one cheating allegation (I'm sure Bessie has already brought it up) where someone made a reference to something someone said (e.g. "Sabrar said I was acting like a mackeral in a soup tin, but I'll have you know...") and the mod posted basically saying "Sabrar said that ONLY in a spoiler in the discussion thread" and modkilled the offender). I don't think I was ther for it but I heard the legend.

If you read my post and not just the parts about YOU, you would know that I already posted a link to the game in question. And you played in it.


For mafia perks, I think the Day Rolecop, because I don’t think it will be all that useful. I’m expecting at least one of the power roles to claim early no matter how hard I protest.


Vote: Day Rolecop

In this game Janitor can only clean someone who we yeet, it is very different from a night-Janitor. We want to know whether we were right because we need a known scum-flip to identify connections (or in case of a town-flip we want to see who pushed it for nefarious reasons).

Ok I understand now. I was thinking it was something mafia would use on town, not on themselves. Yeah, janitor isn’t happening.

So..you hadn't read the rules?

^^ Above post is a video titled "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". Not sure what it's from, but posting this in case it's region locked

Kevin Kline in Hamlet, Act III, Scene 2.

It means I have my doubts about Seven’s sincerity.

My reading comprehension is really suffering today, as I have a massive headache. My two main scums are Wam and bessie (maybe, can't remember at this point) for their role votes. If it wasn't Bessie it was madge. Either way, I want to ask everyone who voted for Janitor and Godfather in both sections their specific reasoning and thought process.

For which role vote are you suspicious of Wam and I?

@bessie at what point did you become aware that the role options had descriptions?

Always. Why?

But you had.