Pick Your Poison Mafia (Day 2)

[EGW]

Votecount 0.1

2-shot Roleblocker
Day Rolecop
Vengeful Mafiate
1-shot Janitor
Godfather

Not voting:
Everyone

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
Setup has been posted here for convenience.

With 12 players, it takes 7 votes to lock in a Mafia Perk. Two perks can be chosen.
The deadline for Day 0 is December 2nd, at 9:00AM EST, or when all mafia roles are locked in.

[Seven]

This playerlist is beyond something I could have ever dreamed of. I'm ecstatic playing with you all again! To start off, the last time I played this, there was this legendary scum player that plotted out at pre-game almost everything that was to happen. They gave town Weak Doctor and Vigilante, identified who was who based on Day 0 discussion, and manipulated a situation where three townies were killed N1, and endgamed with a misyeet Day 2. I don't think I've ever seen such masterful scum play before or after. Just overall brilliant. What I've learned from this is that we ought to be careful how we go about today. PRs, you're going to have the inclination to push certain perks based on what you know about your role (e.g. a cop will want to avoid giving scum a Godfather). Be mindful that scum will be looking for tells such as this to identify you. Vanillas, do your best to likewise mask your identity.

As for what roles to choose, the only one I'd like to avoid is 1-shot janitor. I'm open to giving scum any of the other perks.

[Freddino18]

5. Fred
Who do you know, how well, and how experienced are you. Link to another game you've played as Town.

I think my only town game so far was Millerizer here. This would be my fourth or fifth game? I've had to drop out of two due to real life commitments. I frequented the forum games section on the old forums, but did not do any mafia there, so I'm mostly familiar with the shitposters of old.

[Interrupted here, next piece is probably coming a couple hours from now]

[Freddino18]

[continuing where I left off]

For the roles, I don't really have any context as to what's powerful and what isn't, other than the fact that some people seem to really hate Janitor. I feel like the roleblocker is kind of a dick move, but it seems like it can miss.

Tentative vote for
Roleblocker
and
Godfather

Open to suggestions and explanations, especially as to why Janitor is so hated.

[Freddino18]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=888
Millerizer Mafia for Swiss

[moody7277]

Flips are important enough that I'm going to FoS anyone who votes for it. I was in a game without flips, and town got steamrolled.

Who do you know, how well, and how experienced are you. Link to another game you've played as Town.

Played a bunch: Boomforg, wam, huery, bessie, Sabrar
Played with some: Mak, Seven
New to me: Swiss, Fred, JC, Fonti

I've played off and on for about a decade on this forum and it's predecessor, figure I'm maybe a B-level player.

Sorceror's 11 mafia

PS, that avatar is going to have me mistake you for bessie at least once in this game.

[moody7277]

Perq vote: Godfather, Rolecop

@bessie: If you have Unmafia archived, that would be the stuff of nightmares re Janitor.

[boomfrog]

Oh you're that guy.

I've played with sabrar, Moody, was, Bessie and Seven a bunch, egw a medium amount and one glorious game with Fonti.

Best scum buddy is Fonti.

I haven't read the setup carefully yet. No novel thoughts there yet.

[boomfrog]

Was = wam

[boomfrog]

Oh 2 games with Fonti actually.

[boomfrog]

And a bunch with Heury.

Sorry I'm real busy so I won't be playing to my usual depth, but I couldn't resist this line up.

[JC_DADDY25]

I can understand how janitor can disrupt things, but could a one shot do that much damage?

[Sabrar]

One of the best ways to identify scum is to find connection to their buddies after we have a flip. If we don't know the alignment of the player we vote out that becomes impossible. It's essentially giving scum a free misyeet, besides obfuscating the potential MYLO/LYLo situation.

[fontisian]

Counter argument: janitor isn't actually that bad.

It's a one shot, and it cannot target itself (so if we yeet them first, it's a useless role). It doesn't give scum extra kills and it gives our prs more space to maneuver. I think as long as we don't pair it with a godfather (because that would mean losing info from both flips and prs), it's a fine choice.

Also, I retract my suggestion of role blocker and vengeful. I think in combination those two would be really bad in a worst case scenario like the game Xivii described.

I think role blocker and role cop together are also bad. Day role cop in general puts it ahead of normal role cop, and makes it a risky choice, imo.

Janitor and vengeful I think would be a good combo. If we yeet the vengeful, the janitor using their shot would potentially be pointless, because we'd be able to see an extra scum sided shot that night regardless. And it incentivizes scum to bus in an interesting way.

[Freddino18]

(FoS?)

[Swiss]

^Finger Of Suspicion

Used when a player doesnt have the minerals to vote for someone but wants to uselessly posture instead

[Freddino18]

Ah, Fingering for No Reason. I assume you don't play like that lol

[Swiss]

Well, not in Mafia...

[Swiss]

I can't be bothered to wait for others any longer. I burn with a righteous anger.

pov as a scum player

2-shot Roleblocker - want ++
Day Rolecop - want +
Vengeful Mafiate - want if you have an idiot on your team
1-shot Janitor - need
Godfather - need

frankly I hadn't considered janitor before other people commented on it. But it's a BS role and we're better off without it. I blame the mods.

[Seven]

Swiss and Fonti: btw we have something called the Gojoe Memorial Thread here where you can post your thoughts in spoilers as the game progresses. It's best to avoid using the search function while in game for that reason (though I believe Adum said you can restrict searches to a thread?). I have an overview of how to iso here.

7. Seven
Please breakdown every player here in depth.

Key
* = tentative
T/M Gravity = Degree of skill as mafia compared to town. Scores are between -1 (strong town) and +1 (strong mafia). A person with 0 can have great town play and great mafia play, or poor town play and poor mafia play. Likewise, a person with e.g. +0.5 can have great scum play and decent town play, or just poor town play and decent scum play.
(#) = number of games I was teamed with player as mafia

Boomfrog
PN: He
Origin: xkcd
MBTI: ENTP
Hobby: LARPing
Activity:
▼Average: 2.5 posts/day
▼Size: Small-Mid
T/M Gravity: +0.2
Games Played Together: ~11 (1)
Attributes:
▼Core: Inquisitive
▼Ancillary: Intuitive, friendly, intellectual, strategic, vigilant, charming
Details: Boom is or was a business mcbusinessman and may or may not currently work as a programmer. His father is also a business mcbusinessman and his mother is someone who instilled in him his sense of empathy, which I believe is grounded in rationality. He is married, has an offspring, and resides in the western US. He is crafty as a mafia player as both alignments and is known for his "Boom gambits." He is the xkcd equivalent to Zen from Smashboards, but more mature and level-headed. He once played most of a day RPing as a doggo who could only speak in doggo vocals. I rolled mafia with him once before and shenanigans ensued. In my first game with him, he pocketed me as mafia and ran the town over along with Sabrar. From then, I was paranoid of him in every game after and consistently gunned for him. I have since learned to let him simmer in the early days as he is an essential town player and is likely to be night killed when he is.

Wam
PN: He
Origin: xkcd
MBTI: INTP*
Hobby: Mafia
Activity:
▼Average: 0.3/day
▼Size: Burst, mid, mid-long
T/M Gravity: +0.4
Games Played Together: ~9 (0)
Attributes:
▼Core: Creative
▼Ancillary: Chaotic, Clever, Joyful
Details: Wam resides somewhere not in the US. I believe I knew where at some point but it currently eludes me. His posts are often riddled with typos and strange grammar, giving him a chaotic vibe. The reason for this is that he writes extensively for his profession and prefers to take a break from it during mafia. His work also requires a lot of travel and may perhaps be why he sometimes seems to disappear for a few days, only to return with a burst of catch up posts. Wam prefers to be mafia and is quite cunning when he is. In most games we have played together, he has ended up tunneling me as my base play style tends to elicit paranoia.

Swiss
PN: He
Origin: Smashboards
MBTI: ENFP*
Hobby: Football (Soccer)
Activity:
▼Average: 5/day
▼Size: Burst, mid
T/M Gravity: +0.1
Games Played Together: ~10 (2)
Attributes:
▼Core: Whimsical
▼Ancillary: Egoistic, Playful, Inquisitive, Chaotic
Details: Swiss resides somewhere in western Europe that is not Switzerland. Perhaps Ireland or the UK. We started playing mafia at around the same time. We were mafia together in two of our first games, both of which we dominated. After a hiatus of many years, he returned to smashboards to play a couple of games around the time of the pandemic. However, I was in neither of those games (though I did observe/host) so it's been at least 12 years since we last played together, I reckon longer. He plays in an egoistic manner, but this is just a persona that he emulates and he's actually really sweet. I don't actually know if professional football is something that he is into, I just have a vague memory of him mentioning it once and being confused on whether he was talking about actual (American) football or its lesser. Back in the day, he was mostly feared for his scum play, but in the more recent games I've observed, his solving has shined, so I've placed his gravity as more central.

Mak
AKA: FrozenFlame
PN: He
Origin: Smashboards
MBTI: ENTJ
Hobby: WoW
Activity:
▼Average: 0.4/day
▼Size: mid-long, long
T/M Gravity: -0.4
Games Played Together: ~15 (?)
Attributes:
▼Core: Meticulous
▼Ancillary: Exact, Precise, Thorough (What do you mean these are all the same thing? I'm just being thorough.)
Details: I believe Frozen was playing mafia for some years before I started playing. He is a lawyer and this is reflected in his mafia play. He can take any argument and dismantle it into subatomic particles. Back in the day, he was known for his mega walls, which were second only to a player named EE. He has displayed extraordinary solving ability in recent games, hence my current placement of his gravity. I can't recall us ever being scum together, but I'm sure there must have been at least one. Frozen resides in the eastern US and we have yet to hydra with a picture of one of my avatars with an afro.

Fred
PN: He
Origin: ramenchef (xkcd)
MBTI: Unknown
Hobby: Unknown
Activity:
▼Average: 1/day
▼Size: short, mid, mid-long
T/M Gravity: -0.9
Games Played Together: 0
Attributes:
▼Core: Undetermined
▼Ancillary: Undetermined
Details: I hosted Fred's first two games but I've yet to play with him. In the first game, he was town and his reads were brilliant. I was quite in awe by how quickly he picked up the game and was able to clearly see most of the solve. His mafia game he had difficulty with but I believe his team still won. Due to the high polarity of his gravity, I believe it should be rather clear what alignment he is by Day 1.

Heury
PN: He
Origin: xkcd
MBTI: ENFP
Hobby: Videogames (Nintendo)
Activity:
▼Average: 1/day
▼Size: short
T/M Gravity: +0.2
Games Played Together: ~7 (0)
Attributes:
▼Core: Easy-going
▼Ancillary: Playful, Religious
Details: Heury resides in the eastern portion of the western US. I believe he is a manager at a facility of a large-scale distributor. He is a common misyeet because his good nature makes him someone scum feel safe to go after without fear of significant retaliation. He has at least one cat, used to have a black cat as an avatar, and recently purchased a new bike. Swiss and Heury hydrad together in my Spirited Away game under the name HeuristicCheese, so it is rather peculiar that they seem not to know one another. I have fully assimilated Heury's scum and town meta into my analytical framework (wait, is this no longer the AI game?) and believe I have a good grasp on how to read him.

Seven
PN: All
Origin: Smashboards
MBTI: INTJ
Hobby: Reading
Activity:
▼Average: 7/day
▼Size: mid
T/M Gravity: +0.7
Games Played Together: ~77 (7)
Attributes:
▼Core: Variable
▼Ancillary: Variable
Details: A plurality consisting of 7 core personalities. They are currently a grad student residing in the western US. He is the smashboards equivalent to BoomFrog, but less mature and level-headed. She is well-known for her gambits -- I can't recall a single town game in recent memory where they haven't said something deliberately misleading. That is unlikely to occur in this game, however.

moody
PN: He
Origin: xkcd
MBTI: (requires consultation with bessie)
Hobby: Mafia
Activity:
▼Average: 2/day
▼Size: short, mid
T/M Gravity: +0.1
Games Played Together: ~10 (0)
Attributes:
▼Core: Moody
▼Ancillary: Happy, Sad, Angry, Grumpy
Details: Moody resides in the southern central US. He generally starts off the game with IIoA posts wherein he lists the things people do and assigns point values to them. He has a predisposition to town read bessie. Mosts of his posts are short and to the point, with a few mid-sized analysis posts sprinkled in. His mafia game is fairly similar to his town game, but a close inspection of his posts usually reveals whether he is being manipulative or authentic.

JC
PN: He
Origin: Mafia Universe
MBTI: Undetermined
Hobby: Anime
Activity:
▼Average: 2/day
▼Size: short
T/M Gravity: 0
Games Played Together: 2 (0)
Attributes:
▼Core: Insightful
▼Ancillary: Undetermined
Details: JC is a fairly newish player. I believe this is his 6th? game. We played a game together on Mafia Universe, and I invited him here. In the MU game, his posts were far and few between (a google search says I have that phrase backward), but I found each one insightful and overtly towny. The last game, I hard a hard time reading him. He started out behind but ultimately found his footing. I intend to approach him more cautiously this game as my previous model was overfitted.

Fonti
PN: They
Origin: Dark Lord Potter?
MBTI: ENTP
Hobby: D&D
Activity:
▼Average: 3.5/day
▼Size: mid
T/M Gravity: +0.2
Games Played Together: 4 (1)
Attributes:
▼Core: Confident
▼Ancillary: Intuitive, Strategic, Cunning
Details: I can't believe I've only played four games with Fonti, it seems like more. Probably because of the ones I observed and they hosted, and the fact that I think every alt account is Fonti. They first became known to the Decisive Games/xkcd scene when they replaced into Sumting Sumting mafia where they, me, bessie, and Sabrar were the scum team. We had great chemistry and have similar power wolfing styles, though Fonti is more subtle with their manipulation. In another game, Fonti carried the scum team to a win in a game full of S-rank players, including Boom who was astonished by having the wool pulled over his eyes so greatly. Fonti resides in the western part of Seven's heart.

bessie
PN: She
Origin: xkcd
MBTI: INTJ
Hobby: Kingdom
Activity:
▼Average: 1/day
▼Size: long
T/M Gravity: +0.05
Games Played Together: ~17 (2)
Attributes:
▼Core: Compiler
▼Ancillary: Rigorous, Relentless, Logical, Dog
Details: bessie works in aerospace in the western US. She makes 1 post a day on the weekdays, but will occasionally post more if the deadline is looming. Each of her main posts consists of a wall of quotes that she collects and responds to as she catches up on the day's content. Bessie's reads are based purely on actions, not underlying motive speculation. Once she has locked onto someone as scummy, it's very difficult to reverse, and she will tunnel them into oblivion. She's had great town games and great scum games. I'd put her gravity as fairly central.

Sabrar
PN: He
Origin: xkcd
MBTI: ISTJ
Hobby: Mafia
Activity:
▼Average: 3.5/day
▼Size: short, mid
T/M Gravity: -0.05
Games Played Together: ~9 (1)
Attributes:
▼Core: Analytical
▼Ancillary: Rigorous, Cautious, Logical
Details: Sabrar is a statistical wiz. He plays the game in a strictly logical manner. He's strong as both alignments, especially when it comes to mechanics. He is often night killed early on when he's town. Actually, I can't even remember when he made it past N1 as town. His posts tend to have an authoritative vibe, which causes me to see him as the dad of xkcd mafiaites. Sabrar lives somewhere in Europe probably. Given what I've outlined here, the response below is rather out of character:

Best for Mafia is Janitor, second best might be Rolecop, not sure. Everything else is situational, GF is good if Town received at least 2 investigative roles, utility of Vengeful largely depends if Town received Vigilant/Weak Doc, Roleblock feels weak but can be clutch.

The bolded are what stick out. The hedging does not align with my model of Sabrar. I think he most certainly is capable of a stronger analysis than this.

I can't be bothered to wait for others any longer. I burn with a righteous anger.

pov as a scum player

2-shot Roleblocker - want ++
Day Rolecop - want +
Vengeful Mafiate - want if you have an idiot on your team
1-shot Janitor - need
Godfather - need

frankly I hadn't considered janitor before other people commented on it. But it's a BS role and we're better off without it. I blame the mods.

I agree with this. I don't mind Rolecop as it's the only thing that doesn't interfere with town's actions in any way. Godfather I think should just always be excluded based on there being two roles (three?) that it can interfere with, and discussing the wifom behind whether mafia would choose those roles in hopes that we choose godfather just creates a discussion wherein it's easy for mafia to identify who has those roles. I would probably give 2-shot Roleblocker over Vengeful due to it being just 2 shots. So ultimately, Roleblocker + Rolecop is where I'm probably voting.

[Wam]

That is a very accurate set of data and I think @seven has all the ones I know right.

Am I only at 0.3/day? Would have guessed at it being much higher and each post being much shorter....

Do we need anymore discussion or shall we start getting perk votes locked in?

[Wam]

Also answering/updating sevens info and implied questions. I'm UK based and new job since covid so I don't travel nearly as much which is nice!

[Swiss]

Can I just say that I am STAGGERED that I have hydra'd with Huery.

Huery it didn't occur to you to mention this?

[Wam]

Also keeping the posting going the other reason my posts are so bad grammar and spelling is 90% + is phone posting which doesn't help...

[Swiss]

Seven your analysis of Sabrar doesn't match to his playstyle.

He seems angry and petulant at perceived slights.