HaiLOWEEN 2023: AI apocalypse

[JC_DADDY25]

There's also the issue with the target.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Interesting point about the psychic, according to mafia universe, the psychic automatically learns the role and alignment of anyone targeting them. It notes a more balanced variant is that it learns one or the other, or at most learn from one player.

So this is an incredibly gimped version a very powerful role that Mak's suggesting, but WOULD be the easiest version to fakeclaim.

Especially if they had a partner who could target 4 people....

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[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Though the obvious response to that is, \"why didn't moody include Mak in their targets\"?

At least last night, seems pretty obvious they could justify a pattern that included tracking Mak. I'm honestly not sure moody wouldn't with a moody/mak team.

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[Makhaira]

System.out.println("

Interesting point about the psychic, according to mafia universe, the psychic automatically learns the role and alignment of anyone targeting them. It notes a more balanced variant is that it learns one or the other, or at most learn from one player.

So this is an incredibly gimped version a very powerful role that Mak's suggesting, but WOULD be the easiest version to fakeclaim.

Especially if they had a partner who could target 4 people....

");

this is why my claim is actually legitimate because the full version of the role would be absolutely busted in this setup. one of the biggest reasons I think Laser's slot sticks out right now

compare my power to seven's, much more on par for a townie when compared to the only confirmed townie flip we have. I think we need to be wary of powerful claims right now because tbh I think you have the most powerful town role

Woof woof.

Mind expanding on that?

Ok. If Mak, LaserGuy, and JC are the final three on the last night, scum wins.

can you post your other tested pool again please for ease of visibility. If your abilitybis is to be trusted we can probably do some simple probability assessments based on your pools and any overlap they share

A night that starts with only Gluelock, somitomi, and moody alive will result in a scum win.
A night that starts with only Mak, LaserGuy, and JC alive will result in a scum win.

I didnt get any results last night btw so seems I was not targeted at all

I targeted you. FoS Makhaira.

You should be. Seven ate Nine.

hahahahapft.PNG

thanks for the repost of your pools

I dont think me not getting notice of you is actually inconsistent or particularly suprising tbh. you might not technically be "interacting" with my slot so to speak because your power is doing hypothetical calculations by interfacing with the mod's knowledge, like your ability doesn't affect me "see" me do something so I wouldn't be surprised that Im not being targeted by you in the conventional sense. also this is a crazy scum numbers heavy game and there has been no flipped roleblocker and there's zero chance this game doesn't have some kind of RBer

If bessie is to be trusted then from my perspective laser and JC have to be the plays and its a matter of determining who is the better pick, have to test my gut and balance based read against what the re-read turns up for those two

seven says bessie is bad though so actually need to kind of hedge here though because if she's sufficiently informed this is a very easy power to fake (and strong powerwolfing from bessie I would add like bravo if so)

[Makhaira]

oh shit I have to sift through all of JC's AtE again goddamnit

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

System.out.println("

Interesting point about the psychic, according to mafia universe, the psychic automatically learns the role and alignment of anyone targeting them. It notes a more balanced variant is that it learns one or the other, or at most learn from one player.

So this is an incredibly gimped version a very powerful role that Mak's suggesting, but WOULD be the easiest version to fakeclaim.

Especially if they had a partner who could target 4 people....

");

this is why my claim is actually legitimate because the full version of the role would be absolutely busted in this setup. one of the biggest reasons I think Laser's slot sticks out right now

compare my power to seven's, much more on par for a townie when compared to the only confirmed townie flip we have. I think we need to be wary of powerful claims right now because tbh I think you have the most powerful town role

That's the thing though, I am comparing to Seven.

Conversation can absolutely be powerful. I laughed at Seven saying they submitted a kill on EGW because me and Swiss used that same technique to try to get somebody's alignment one game we played. The "you see every action on you" version would imo make sense in this setup as a town ability, it pairs well in the type of setup that gets a town bodyguard and a neighborizer.

Your version, seems drastically underpowered in relative terms. And that would actually make sense for the killing scum team (assuming I'm correct) but a fake claim looks more likely.

thanks for the repost of your pools

I dont think me not getting notice of you is actually inconsistent or particularly suprising tbh. you might not technically be "interacting" with my slot so to speak because your power is doing hypothetical calculations by interfacing with the mod's knowledge, like your ability doesn't affect me "see" me do something so I wouldn't be surprised that Im not being targeted by you in the conventional sense.

Ask the mod, it's always worth clarifying these things, but I can't imagine how that wouldn't be considered targeting for a psychic's ability and that you're not gunning for Bessie over this further makes me disinclined to believe you're being honest.

also this is a crazy scum numbers heavy game and there has been no flipped roleblocker and there's zero chance this game doesn't have some kind of RBer

The crazy number of scum in this setup is exactly the reason I'm doubting a roleblocker. Maybe a 1-shot but it's too strong in a setup with so many scum and town isn't that strong.

If bessie is to be trusted then from my perspective laser and JC have to be the plays and its a matter of determining who is the better pick, have to test my gut and balance based read against what the re-read turns up for those two

seven says bessie is bad though so actually need to kind of hedge here though because if she's sufficiently informed this is a very easy power to fake (and strong powerwolfing from bessie I would add like bravo if so)

I think Bessie is accurately reporting what she did N2 and n3, and I think she has every reason to do so.

If laser is the play, it isn't because a 3 shot JOAT with watcher and tracker is overpowered relative to town. And JC isn't scum, there's only one way they could be and if the situation comes up it will be very obvious.

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[somitomi]

I'm considering it's 8/3/1/1, but if human mafia doesn't have kills and the actual killer has to die in order for them to gain kills, they should be informed about the nature of the faction (SK or a Mafia faction) and EGW was waaaay too committed about me and Seven beijg scum together, I think he was trying to scumhunt and I read it as him legitimately thinking he found the opposing team.

And I think at this point we're way past disputing if the humans have the kills btw. Their powers make no sense for a faction that doesn't have to fear NKs, and there's only been one kill a night which has hit one of them.

Makes sense to me

No.

Why not?

3 humans. Less than 3 is impossible now.

The humans are pretty clear, yes, my question was focused on what you think of the remaining scum, but that's been clarified now.

What irks me is, why would they kill EGW? Laserguy still is the only one with the obvious motive and while they were relatively late in the claim order anyone decently observant would've realized I was holding some potential cc material back and Bessie still hasn't claimed.

Misdirection?

Finally a counterclaim!

Let's hope this one isn't a dud

POE based decision on my part:

Vote: somi

Can you walk me through the reasoning that narrowed PoE to just me? Or how you got to Mak, JC and me in the first place?

I dont think me not getting notice of you is actually inconsistent or particularly suprising tbh. you might not technically be "interacting" with my slot so to speak because your power is doing hypothetical calculations by interfacing with the mod's knowledge, like your ability doesn't affect me "see" me do something so I wouldn't be surprised that Im not being targeted by you in the conventional sense. also this is a crazy scum numbers heavy game and there has been no flipped roleblocker and there's zero chance this game doesn't have some kind of RBer

In my experience even purely informative powers (like gunsmith or cop) are considered to "visit" their target in the night, for example Adum's power detected my "ask the mod if Adum has chat" power. It's possible bessie's Cassandra power is different, but I feel like that'd be unusual enough for bessie to be informed about it.

[AdumbroDeus]

system.out.println("

What irks me is, why would they kill EGW? Laserguy still is the only one with the obvious motive and while they were relatively late in the claim order anyone decently observant would've realized I was holding some potential cc material back and Bessie still hasn't claimed.

Misdirection?

That would be one hell of a lucky misdirection. Any more substantial alternatives?

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[madge]

Votals:

Somi - 1 - Moody

Night 4 will start at 8am on Sunday the 29th of October (UTC+8; China time), or in about 5 days.

With 7 people alive, it's 4 to vote off.

Please note the deadline is 4 hours earlier than it has been on previous days.

[bessie]

Daily bark!

Starting to think that maybe seven was on to something.

With the number of times he changes his reads in a game, he’s sure to be correct about something at some point.

this is why my claim is actually legitimate because the full version of the role would be absolutely busted in this setup. one of the biggest reasons I think Laser's slot sticks out right now

compare my power to seven's, much more on par for a townie when compared to the only confirmed townie flip we have. I think we need to be wary of powerful claims right now because tbh I think you have the most powerful town role

Yea! A look-at-me-I’m-so-townie post! Double FoS Mak!

I dont think me not getting notice of you is actually inconsistent or particularly suprising tbh. you might not technically be "interacting" with my slot so to speak because your power is doing hypothetical calculations by interfacing with the mod's knowledge, like your ability doesn't affect me "see" me do something so I wouldn't be surprised that Im not being targeted by you in the conventional sense. also this is a crazy scum numbers heavy game and there has been no flipped roleblocker and there's zero chance this game doesn't have some kind of RBer

My role pm says it’s a targeting ability, and can be interfered with.

seven says bessie is bad

sad bessie.PNG (86.85 KiB) Viewed 8360 times

POE based decision on my part:

Vote: somi

Can you walk me through the reasoning that narrowed PoE to just me? Or how you got to Mak, JC and me in the first place?

FoS somitomi. Part of this was discussed yesterday.

somitomi, any current reads?

[JC_DADDY25]

So you targeted all three of us?

[JC_DADDY25]

@bessie that was directed toward you

[bessie]

Yes I target three players and find out who would win if night starts with only those three players. And both the results was that scum would win. Just "scum" not "Human" or other possible scum faction.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

It IS possible it's mod error, there was actually mod error on my results. I doubt it, but it's always worth asking.

Speaking of which:

Last night I watched Somi in case they were killed last night phase. Only moody visited them.

However, the mod sent me a track result on accident initially, then corrected themselves when I pointed out error. It says that Somi visited me, so assuming it was done properly (grain of salt because it was in error), Somi didn't kill Seven.

I got targeted by three powers that I'm willing to claim:

1. Neighborizer
2. Watch
3. Chat cop

I'm not willing to confirm nor deny whether JC's action, whatever it might be, targeted me last night.

");

[JC_DADDY25]

So then with that info we can deduce that neither Somi or Moody killed Seven, as long as the info on Somi is correct.

[JC_DADDY25]

Also don't think humans would have 2 versions of a cop, so starting to lean more toward a member of the 2nd team

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.print("

So then with that info we can deduce that neither Somi or Moody killed Seven, as long as the info on Somi is correct.

walk me through your reasoning on moody.

Unless you're assuming that people can only do one night action a night period and have to choose between it and factional kills if they have other night actions.

Which I've honestly never seen in smashboards PR madness setups, is it like that in mafia universe? This is only the second game I played here.

");

[JC_DADDY25]

My first game here, but I am looking at it as only being able to do one night action per night.

[AdumbroDeus]

system.out.println("

My first game here, but I am looking at it as only being able to do one night action per night.

I doubt that's the case, but if that's common here, would appreciate if everyone could confirm. That would really reshape how to interpret night actions.

My experience is games where your personal action was entirely different from your scum action (eg a Mafia JOAT could use one JOAT action a night and also carry out the mafia nk) with maybe one game as a unique exception.

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[somitomi]

FoS somitomi. Part of this was discussed yesterday.

somitomi, any current reads?

Yeah, "part of this" and if you recall I wasn't particularly impressed by moody's explanation yesterDay so I wanted to talk to him about it some more. How is this suspicious again?
Current reads is mainly "I have to go reread stuff", but moody is suspicious, you and LG need further investigation.

My experience is games where your personal action was entirely different from your scum action (eg a Mafia JOAT could use one JOAT action a night and also carry out the mafia nk) with maybe one game as a unique exception.

I mostly played mafia on xkcd and I don't recall any game where doing the night kill prevented the use of other abilities.

[madge]

Votals:

Somi - 1 - Moody

Night 4 will start at 8am on Sunday the 29th of October (UTC+8; China time), or in about 1 day and 2 hours.

With 7 people alive, it's 4 to vote off.

Please note the deadline is 4 hours earlier than it has been on previous days.

Also note that yesterday my bold text gave the wrong deadline (said "in about 5 days" instead of "about 2 days"). I can give a 28 hour extension if this is a problem. PM me if you would like me to do that.

[bessie]

I doubt that's the case, but if that's common here, would appreciate if everyone could confirm. That would really reshape how to interpret night actions.

There's no rule. It depends on the game and the mod.


Vote: Makhaira

[madge]

please note that ties end with no elimination, as stated in the day start post.

Phone posting so no official count but it's one vote mak and somi

Deadline in like 9 or 10 hours

[LaserGuy]

Still leaning toward the killers in [Mak, somi] and last human in [moody, bessie]

Won't be around basically at all today.
Vote: Makhaira

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

At this point I'm waiting for Mak to talk. I find his handling of the CC really poor but I also have misgiving on laser who reads rather subtly manipulative.

Still leaning toward the killers in [Mak, somi] and last human in [moody, bessie]

Won't be around basically at all today.
Vote: Makhaira

Moody makes incredibly little sense as the last human due to the way EGW and Zeniba treated them.

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