HaiLOWEEN 2023: AI apocalypse

[Makhaira]

Mind explaining your thought process for why you paired these points with this post?

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Is this directed at me?

[Makhaira]

@Seven, what did you and EGW talk about last night?

great question

[AdumbroDeus]

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Mind explaining your thought process for why you paired these points with this post?

");

Is this directed at me?

Si señor.");

[Seven]

I'm not sure what it means that both humans tunneled Moody. I think it means nothing actually. They couldn't have had info on him since Trisscar was offed Day 1. So most likely they were just going for an easy target. The George kill does implicate Moody though since he was tunneling him, but George wasn't making headway in that push, so I'm not certain moody would feel the need to go that route. Yeah, I think scum!moody would off bessie over George here.

The fact that Adum is alive implicates Frozen (Mak). In fact, there's much that implicates Frozen and he's fairly obviously maf at this point.

Will you elaborate on this?

Yes. Adum is shielding him so it’s beneficial for Mak to keep him alive.

[Seven]

Glue and Mak both of you seem to have confusion with how night actions work:

-First, Frozen, the neighborizor cant talk to the person they neighborized in the same night. The action has to go through successfully first. Yesterday you thought that my neighbor told me heury was human, but I had not had a neighbor to talk with at that point.

-Blue, Mak couldnt’t have been my neighbor. George confirmed that I neighbored him. Additionally, what you’re speaking of is a cult. There are no alignment converting roles this game. What I believe Mak was either speaking of is that I simply win and exit the game once my hood reaches a certain level or win with the winning team at the end of the game if everyone alive is in my hood. That is, that I can win congruently with the winning team.

-Mak, the idea that im an indy killer contradicts your indy neighbor thing. Why would I kill George in that case. The reason why your theory is no good and worthy of being handwaved (it’s worrying that Blue thinks it’s so good) is that I haven’t actually been playing in a way that is consistent with that at all. For example, I was willing to be ellimed over alternatives day 1.

[AdumbroDeus]

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Actually the more I think about it, the less Seven's point about me being dead unless Mak is scum makes for them to say.

This very clearly was a "one scum group/individual trying to kill the other scum group" kill. EGW kill makes no sense as trying to kill power townies, they weren't particularly on most people's town radars and weren't particularly effective in creating movement in the game. Only person I'm thinking about that might want to do that is laserguy if scum and given the former I don't think any reasonably sophisticated player would do that.

Plus it also doesn't account for protective roles, we had a mod confirmed doctor, and possibly still do but I doubt it, given the known targets, though we'll know that toMarrow. That doesn't even account for other protective roles like say informational protective roles like watchers targeting me, which would super obviously be an objectively a good choice at this juncture given I was seen as likely town by most people and had established myself as a dominant player in lynch choices (which is weird, given I'm a normally a Cassandra). Scum had every reason to be worried about a blocked kill or that somebody learns who killed me.

Which means that this point about me only being alive cause I'm Mak's pocket townie makes no sense, the most probable explanation is that the scum that killed were scumhunting otherscum and even if they weren't I was an obvious protective target last night phase with mod confirmed protection.

And I think Seven is more than insightful enough to realize their point is BS.

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[AdumbroDeus]

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-First, Frozen, the neighborizor cant talk to the person they neighborized in the same night. The action has to go through successfully first. Yesterday you thought that my neighbor told me heury was human, but I had not had a neighbor to talk with at that point.

That was me not Mak (unless I missed something and he said it too). I was suspecting that neighborizer was an oddball in that resolution and resolves as soon as you submit because of the lack of day chat as an explanation for why you got "a message".

That was before I realized you thought I was BCing you as a flavor cop.

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[Seven]

@Seven, what did you and EGW talk about last night?

-I asked him if he trusted me enough to claim
-He said yes and told me he was the loud doctor
-I told him frozen was def scum. He asked for reasoning and told me moody is scum
-I went into Moody's meta and showed why is probably town, then went into why frozen is scum (essentially the same post I made here)
-He said no moody is scum, and thinks we're both right
-I asked him if he will help me yeet frozen. he said he'll stick to moody but will compromise if it comes down to it
-I asked him who I should neighborize. he said bessie
-I said just kidding about all of this im scum and killing you tonight, thanks for telling me you're doc
-he said man i was going to protect you too
-i said im just messin
-he said brb asking mods if can self protect
-he said but for real though im protecting you tonight

[Seven]

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-First, Frozen, the neighborizor cant talk to the person they neighborized in the same night. The action has to go through successfully first. Yesterday you thought that my neighbor told me heury was human, but I had not had a neighbor to talk with at that point.

That was me not Mak (unless I missed something and he said it too). I was suspecting that neighborizer was an oddball in that resolution and resolves as soon as you submit because of the lack of day chat as an explanation for why you got "a message".

That was before I realized you thought I was BCing you as a flavor cop.

");

with Seven claiming knowledge of a "human" result on heury, which they seem to be suggesting is coming from someone in their claimed neighborhood, I think a claim from this slot is way overdue

[Seven]

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Actually the more I think about it, the less Seven's point about me being dead unless Mak is scum makes for them to say.

This very clearly was a "one scum group/individual trying to kill the other scum group" kill. EGW kill makes no sense as trying to kill power townies, they weren't particularly on most people's town radars and weren't particularly effective in creating movement in the game. Only person I'm thinking about that might want to do that is laserguy if scum and given the former I don't think any reasonably sophisticated player would do that.

Plus it also doesn't account for protective roles, we had a mod confirmed doctor, and possibly still do but I doubt it, given the known targets, though we'll know that toMarrow. That doesn't even account for other protective roles like say informational protective roles like watchers targeting me, which would super obviously be an objectively a good choice at this juncture given I was seen as likely town by most people and had established myself as a dominant player in lynch choices (which is weird, given I'm a normally a Cassandra). Scum had every reason to be worried about a blocked kill or that somebody learns who killed me.

Which means that this point about me only being alive cause I'm Mak's pocket townie makes no sense, the most probable explanation is that the scum that killed were scumhunting otherscum and even if they weren't I was an obvious protective target last night phase with mod confirmed protection.

And I think Seven is more than insightful enough to realize their point is BS.

");

You're right, Doc avoidance makes sense for not targeting you.

[AdumbroDeus]

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-First, Frozen, the neighborizor cant talk to the person they neighborized in the same night. The action has to go through successfully first. Yesterday you thought that my neighbor told me heury was human, but I had not had a neighbor to talk with at that point.

That was me not Mak (unless I missed something and he said it too). I was suspecting that neighborizer was an oddball in that resolution and resolves as soon as you submit because of the lack of day chat as an explanation for why you got "a message".

That was before I realized you thought I was BCing you as a flavor cop.

");

with Seven claiming knowledge of a "human" result on heury, which they seem to be suggesting is coming from someone in their claimed neighborhood, I think a claim from this slot is way overdue

You're correct then, my apologies.");

[AdumbroDeus]

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Actually the more I think about it, the less Seven's point about me being dead unless Mak is scum makes for them to say.

This very clearly was a "one scum group/individual trying to kill the other scum group" kill. EGW kill makes no sense as trying to kill power townies, they weren't particularly on most people's town radars and weren't particularly effective in creating movement in the game. Only person I'm thinking about that might want to do that is laserguy if scum and given the former I don't think any reasonably sophisticated player would do that.

Plus it also doesn't account for protective roles, we had a mod confirmed doctor, and possibly still do but I doubt it, given the known targets, though we'll know that toMarrow. That doesn't even account for other protective roles like say informational protective roles like watchers targeting me, which would super obviously be an objectively a good choice at this juncture given I was seen as likely town by most people and had established myself as a dominant player in lynch choices (which is weird, given I'm a normally a Cassandra). Scum had every reason to be worried about a blocked kill or that somebody learns who killed me.

Which means that this point about me only being alive cause I'm Mak's pocket townie makes no sense, the most probable explanation is that the scum that killed were scumhunting otherscum and even if they weren't I was an obvious protective target last night phase with mod confirmed protection.

And I think Seven is more than insightful enough to realize their point is BS.

");

You're right, Doc avoidance makes sense for not targeting you.

I think BF's spirit was protecting me from beyond the grave :p

The chat is interesting, did you end up following EGW's advice and neighborizing Bessie?
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[Seven]

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Well we know how the last one turned out, so right now your role seems like a safe claim your scum buddy backed up.

ooo good point

Ok, so whose your new neighbor toDay? Why are you acknowledging the validity of the request without providing the info? Again you're already claimed.

It makes sense as a question only from the perspective that we are in a one-team scenario. If we have a vig or redirector claim the kill on George, then I'll say. Otherwise, my neighborizing has already been confirmed. Telling them who is now in my hood just gives scum more info on who to kill.

[Seven]

btw if you're a self-redirector you should definitely claim at this point so that we can clear that up, especially since scum probably knows anyway.

[Seven]

(that wasn't @ Adum but @ everyone)

[AdumbroDeus]

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ooo good point

Ok, so whose your new neighbor toDay? Why are you acknowledging the validity of the request without providing the info? Again you're already claimed.

It makes sense as a question only from the perspective that we are in a one-team scenario. If we have a vig or redirector claim the kill on George, then I'll say. Otherwise, my neighborizing has already been confirmed. Telling them who is now in my hood just gives scum more info on who to kill.

neighborizer doesn't give firm info so there's no reason to kill around it.

What it's useful for is if important revelations occur in the neighborhood.

You said everyone gets out in the same neighborhood, I'd like to ask your current neighbor a question.");

[Seven]

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Ok, so whose your new neighbor toDay? Why are you acknowledging the validity of the request without providing the info? Again you're already claimed.

It makes sense as a question only from the perspective that we are in a one-team scenario. If we have a vig or redirector claim the kill on George, then I'll say. Otherwise, my neighborizing has already been confirmed. Telling them who is now in my hood just gives scum more info on who to kill.

neighborizer doesn't give firm info so there's no reason to kill around it.

What it's useful for is if important revelations occur in the neighborhood.

You said everyone gets out in the same neighborhood, I'd like to ask your current neighbor a question.");

Chat is reset with each addition but anyone in the hood at that point can talk to one another

[Makhaira]

Glue and Mak both of you seem to have confusion with how night actions work:

-First, Frozen, the neighborizor cant talk to the person they neighborized in the same night. The action has to go through successfully first. Yesterday you thought that my neighbor told me heury was human, but I had not had a neighbor to talk with at that point.

-Blue, Mak couldnt’t have been my neighbor. George confirmed that I neighbored him. Additionally, what you’re speaking of is a cult. There are no alignment converting roles this game. What I believe Mak was either speaking of is that I simply win and exit the game once my hood reaches a certain level or win with the winning team at the end of the game if everyone alive is in my hood. That is, that I can win congruently with the winning team.

-Mak, the idea that im an indy killer contradicts your indy neighbor thing. Why would I kill George in that case. The reason why your theory is no good and worthy of being handwaved (it’s worrying that Blue thinks it’s so good) is that I haven’t actually been playing in a way that is consistent with that at all. For example, I was willing to be ellimed over alternatives day 1.

Are you claiming you didnt neighborize anyone N1 after zeniba elim? Because by day 2 you should have had a neighbor so of course I had reason to think that your neighbor could have had investigatory results from N1 that they could have communicated to you. How would I know whether your neighborhood has daychat or not?

And yes I agree that you killing EGW makes no sense if you're an indy marker, youre tanking your own wincon that way, but it is certainly possible that you scumslipped to EGW in the neighborhood, which would make you want to kill him. I also generally think a marker neighborizer with an every night kill is OP af and is not likely to be in the game. At this juncture im more inclined to believe youre an indy SK who happens to have the neighborizor power on top of that

[Seven]

Glue and Mak both of you seem to have confusion with how night actions work:

-First, Frozen, the neighborizor cant talk to the person they neighborized in the same night. The action has to go through successfully first. Yesterday you thought that my neighbor told me heury was human, but I had not had a neighbor to talk with at that point.

-Blue, Mak couldnt’t have been my neighbor. George confirmed that I neighbored him. Additionally, what you’re speaking of is a cult. There are no alignment converting roles this game. What I believe Mak was either speaking of is that I simply win and exit the game once my hood reaches a certain level or win with the winning team at the end of the game if everyone alive is in my hood. That is, that I can win congruently with the winning team.

-Mak, the idea that im an indy killer contradicts your indy neighbor thing. Why would I kill George in that case. The reason why your theory is no good and worthy of being handwaved (it’s worrying that Blue thinks it’s so good) is that I haven’t actually been playing in a way that is consistent with that at all. For example, I was willing to be ellimed over alternatives day 1.

Are you claiming you didnt neighborize anyone N1 after zeniba elim? Because by day 2 you should have had a neighbor so of course I had reason to think that your neighbor could have had investigatory results from N1 that they could have communicated to you. How would I know whether your neighborhood has daychat or not?

And yes I agree that you killing EGW makes no sense if you're an indy marker, youre tanking your own wincon that way, but it is certainly possible that you scumslipped to EGW in the neighborhood, which would make you want to kill him. I also generally think a marker neighborizer with an every night kill is OP af and is not likely to be in the game. At this juncture im more inclined to believe youre an indy SK who happens to have the neighborizor power on top of that

Because it says in the OP and we’ve talked about it in thread extensively?

[Seven]

Also on sk + neighborizor, nope all the roles are straight forward this game. Single role with a potential modifer (e.d loud doctor).

[Makhaira]

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Mak's indignation feels pretty real here.

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I think you're just not reading context.

Seven claimed they got a message that Heury was specifically human (that they attribute to me) and that's what Heury was responding to.

Knowing for a fact that there were two kill actions is more interesting given the mod clarification.

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I agree with adum's assessment here and really am not impressed with heury's apathetic response to this claim against him, sarcasm in the face of a direct claim of info against you is a weak look especially if you're town like if you were legitimately town you would want to know who is spreading what is misinfo from your perspective

Mind explaining your thought process for why you paired these points with this post?

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I was explaining that I thought that gluelock was reading heury's posts way too literally, missing the context of heury being generally pretty sarcastic in his replies and clearly representing his own subjective conclusions about the setup/night actions as objective ones that glue was reading as actual arguments from heury for his interpretation being objectively correct

I was agreeing with you that glue was misunderstanding what was being said, and further agreeing that if heury was in fact representing he knew there were two kills and one got thwarted, that would be a TMI indicator

[Makhaira]

Setup Notes:
• You may not self-target unless it is explicitly allowed in your role PM
• The mods will not announce MeLo/ELo or otherwise let players know that they are close to winning/losing
This setup is Non-Bastard. Per Mafiascum's definition of a 'bastard game', this setup is guaranteed free from:
• Cults, secret wincons, other mid-game alignment changes
• Moderator lies that can't be reasonably anticipated
• Post restrictions
• Spoiler reading or listening roles


Sample Town Role PM:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

[image]

[Rolename]

[flavour text]


Win Condition:

• You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Personal Abilities:

• Ability 1: Each Night, you may target one player. Assuming no interference with your action, [effect of Ability 1].
• [Optional text clarifying or expanding Ability 1]
• [Possible additional Abilities]

Seven where are you getting that neighborizer and SK are incompatible from this?????? It clearly contemplates additional abilities hello?

[Makhaira]

@Seven, what did you and EGW talk about last night?

-I asked him if he trusted me enough to claim
-He said yes and told me he was the loud doctor
-I told him frozen was def scum. He asked for reasoning and told me moody is scum
-I went into Moody's meta and showed why is probably town, then went into why frozen is scum (essentially the same post I made here)
-He said no moody is scum, and thinks we're both right
-I asked him if he will help me yeet frozen. he said he'll stick to moody but will compromise if it comes down to it
-I asked him who I should neighborize. he said bessie
-I said just kidding about all of this im scum and killing you tonight, thanks for telling me you're doc
-he said man i was going to protect you too
-i said im just messin
-he said brb asking mods if can self protect
-he said but for real though im protecting you tonight

uhhhhhh the bolded hello?????

[Seven]

Setup Notes:
• You may not self-target unless it is explicitly allowed in your role PM
• The mods will not announce MeLo/ELo or otherwise let players know that they are close to winning/losing
This setup is Non-Bastard. Per Mafiascum's definition of a 'bastard game', this setup is guaranteed free from:
• Cults, secret wincons, other mid-game alignment changes
• Moderator lies that can't be reasonably anticipated
• Post restrictions
• Spoiler reading or listening roles


Sample Town Role PM:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

[image]

[Rolename]

[flavour text]


Win Condition:

• You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Personal Abilities:

• Ability 1: Each Night, you may target one player. Assuming no interference with your action, [effect of Ability 1].
• [Optional text clarifying or expanding Ability 1]
• [Possible additional Abilities]

Seven where are you getting that neighborizer and SK are incompatible from this?????? It clearly contemplates additional abilities hello?

Im not getting it from there, im getting it from inference based on everyone that has flipped an my own role. Im guessing not a single one of you has something as complex as dual abilities.

[Makhaira]

Seven really trying to overswarm us rn and give himself content for the "how I outplayed all of you" post game post saying shit like that about his convo with EGW holllly moly