HaiLOWEEN 2023: AI apocalypse

[JC_DADDY25]

@EGW

Ithink it was you kept saying Zen was scum last day phase, were you talking about Zeniba or Seven? I think that was something that kept getting me confused. You may have clarified already, but I just want to make sure.

Can you answer this please?

[EGW]

Can you answer this please?

Before I answer, are you fully read up on the game?

[JC_DADDY25]

Yes

[JC_DADDY25]

What does that have to do with who you are taking about? Pretty sure you answered, just don't remember

[EGW]

Wait, who the hell is Zen in this playerlist? Referring to the same Zen from smashboards right?

");

Zen = Seven
Makhaira = FrozenFlame

So, Zen's Freudian analysis of me is that since I mention bessie and BF so much we three are the scumteam?

I too am a little weirded out that LaserGuy has me at most townie, that cuts sharply across my usual meta.

Please don't refer to Zeniba as Zen.

Here's your answer.

[EGW]

What does that have to do with who you are taking about? Pretty sure you answered, just don't remember

If you have read fully you wouldn't be asking that question. What's your thoughts on the full game?

[JC_DADDY25]

I mean, sort of.

[EGW]

Also, full reads list. I'm going to a piano lesson, will talk more when I am back.

[LaserGuy]

And finally, the first sacrifice was chosen, raked over the proverbial coals..

Votals:
Seven - 4 - Bessie, EGW, Heury, Somi
Moody - 2 - Makhaira, Zeniba
Zeniba - 6 - Boomfrog, Seven, Adum, Moody, LaserGuy, Gluelock

Zeniba had the highest total and has been voted out.


Day 1 is over: no more posting. It is now Night 1. PM night actions to me and Sabrar (reply all your role PM). If you're in a chat, I will create your chat shortly.

Flip and deadline counter will follow in 20-30 minutes.

Some initial thoughts:

- Zeniba being on the same wagon as Mak makes them unlikely partners, I don’t see two wolfs sitting on the same wagon together like that.

I think that this post points against Mak/Zeniba being partners. Mak misunderstood Zeniba's big post (where they were looking through moody's read list for duplicates, I think) as being from Zeniba, but ended up with essentially the same analysis as they had when it was from moody. They weren't trying to hedge their interpretation because one player was a partner.

-The wagon on Seven is more likely to contain scum who are working to save Zeniba. There’s a chance of bussing though, like why save a mostly inactive scum-mate?

If we are in a 9-2-2 type scenario, I imagine that the buddy is not bussing. It's very hard to lose a partner on D1 and recover in that situation. Most likely the partner is in [bessie, EGW, Heury, somi, Mak, JC]. I think probably not Mak. bessie and heury I think are more likely together (either town partners or mafia partners) than with Zeniba. EGW, somi, JC seem most likely.

If we are in a 9-3-1 or 10-3 type scenario, we probably have one on and one off-wagon. Probably you/Moody would be my candidates for on-wagon based on general wagonomics, unless Adum busses like a madman for no reason.

[JC_DADDY25]

What does that have to do with who you are taking about? Pretty sure you answered, just don't remember

If you have read fully you wouldn't be asking that question. What's your thoughts on the full game?

Just because he asked someone else not to call Zeniba Zen, didn't really clarify on whether or not you were or not.

[EGW]

Just because he asked someone else not to call Zeniba Zen, didn't really clarify on whether or not you were or not.

Me quoting that for you is the answer itself, that yes, I was referring to Seven. Zeniba is usually referred to as Trisscar. I am interested in your thoughts and reads on the game as you say, you are caught up. Be back later.

[LaserGuy]

As for why the non-human team did the kill, I doubt both teams can kill each night. It’s either the case that one team has no kill, or that the kill alternates between each team each night. For balance purposes, I think because Trisscar was a cop, it’s the non-humans that either started out with or permanently have the kill.

This is specific in a way that kind of pings me and I'm just noting it for posterity.

[LaserGuy]

As for why the non-human team did the kill, I doubt both teams can kill each night. It’s either the case that one team has no kill, or that the kill alternates between each team each night. For balance purposes, I think because Trisscar was a cop, it’s the non-humans that either started out with or permanently have the kill.

Yeah.... There were definitely 2 kill actions taken last night. Or do you think the doctor's action is always public?

Loud doctor is a possibility. IIRC in Crossover Mafia there was a (scum) doctor whose protections were announced.

[LaserGuy]

Daily bark grr.

Setup note: The filp was Zeniba was scum, mafia. She could be indie, with would fit with the flavor.

It would be very weird for them to have Zeniba as 'mafia' and indie. I feel like this would be intentionally deceptive by the mods to phrase it this way, and it's a little disturbing to me that you would think this is a possibility.

FWIW, Seven considers bussing super suboptimal and almost never does it.

Hari Seldon bussed Peaceful Whale in Newbie New Year.

That's true. I think the situation there was more complicated (last minute elim scramble after a PR claim or something). I seem to recall from reading the scumchat afterward that Hari was quite vexed about having to do it.

[LaserGuy]

I still have a feeling that seven doesn't care about the outcome of the game, and I have no clue if that's alignment indicative.

I don't really understand where you're getting this impression from.

A lot of your pushes this game have felt really fake to me. It's a really bad look for you and I think the only reason that you aren't being auto-yeeted today is because of bessie.

[LaserGuy]

Laser I'm just slightly suspicious of because it seems like he should have had a stronger town read of me yesterday. Seemed like he was playing things close to the fence. Everything else is good though.

I feel like you are missing the intent of his entire play here, but only noticing a glimpse of it. Notice how Laser simply votes me today without any questioning or reasoning.

You were scum yesterday, you are still scum today. The reasoning hasn't changed, except that you now have wagon equity with flipped scum.

[LaserGuy]

I believe town laser would vote without dropping any reasoning and probably have a page long word doc somewhere with the reasoning in detail. Albeit, laserguy hasn't won a town read this game from me yet.

I vote without explaining the reasons all the time, yes. I feel like it's probably NAI behaviour for me, but IDK.

I don't generally take a lot of notes anymore because I'm lazy and the note-taking did not lead to better results in my games.

[LaserGuy]

[*]I think bessie/heury have a non-trivial chance of being masons, but that's my evaluation of them ignoring that until I see a claim or flip.

[Seven]

That's true. I think the situation there was more complicated (last minute elim scramble after a PR claim or something). I seem to recall from reading the scumchat afterward that Hari was quite vexed about having to do it.

Wouldn't that align with my "sigh Vote: zeniba" here?

[LaserGuy]

That's true. I think the situation there was more complicated (last minute elim scramble after a PR claim or something). I seem to recall from reading the scumchat afterward that Hari was quite vexed about having to do it.

Wouldn't that align with my "sigh Vote: zeniba" here?

I think there was enough time that if both you and a buddy were being suggested for elimination, you probably would have pushed harder in a different direction. IDK if you had the thread pull to carry it, but I don't think you would have given up on Zeniba so easily if you were buddies.

[Gluelock]

My top scum reads atm are Heury and EGW.

My Heury reads are kind of weak, but the people I town read have also scum read them which validates my beliefs. I wish I could arrive at a more independent read of them though. (I’m tempted to throw bessie in this bucket too, idk how to read that slot at all though)

EGW is a carry over read from D1.

Im still not seeing what some see in JC however.

[Seven]

My top scum reads atm are Heury and EGW.

My Heury reads are kind of weak, but the people I town read have also scum read them which validates my beliefs. I wish I could arrive at a more independent read of them though. (I’m tempted to throw bessie in this bucket too, idk how to read that slot at all though)

EGW is a carry over read from D1.

Im still not seeing what some see in JC however.

By some, do you mean me? Or the the people town reading him?

[Seven]

That's true. I think the situation there was more complicated (last minute elim scramble after a PR claim or something). I seem to recall from reading the scumchat afterward that Hari was quite vexed about having to do it.

Wouldn't that align with my "sigh Vote: zeniba" here?

I think there was enough time that if both you and a buddy were being suggested for elimination, you probably would have pushed harder in a different direction. IDK if you had the thread pull to carry it, but I don't think you would have given up on Zeniba so easily if you were buddies.

You are right!

[Seven]

Seven bus meta that I link every game: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6289712

[AdumbroDeus]

Mak: Again, misreading Zeniba's moody quotes as Zeniba's thoughts. The fact that he said that he liked her posting her thoughts is the scummy bit. Shows his reading of her wasn't authentic, he just saw big post and said oh I can say I like that.

That doesn't work when they said explicitly that they liked Zeniba having a burst of content but were clear they were having trouble parsing the post.

For clarification the post: viewtopic.php?p=51521#p51521

Adum: One thing I forgot to mention in my initial thoughts on Adum is I feel he is playing differently than in sorcerers 11. Far more cautious. Getting everything in order before making a vote rather than vote and solve at the same time. This meta difference is the only reason why I'm gut reading him tbh. And I guess that point on scum!Boom not having any reason to defend heury when he did.

Ya I am playing differently than Sorc's, and I haven't exactly been subtle about it. Have you considered asking why, then figuring out whether you believe my answer?

You seem to have an issue where you use meta in a very binary way as opposed to using it to understand how people think about the game. Let me ask you this, what reasons that aren't change in alignment might result in my change in playerstyle? It's also more than just being slower with my vote.

EGW: I 100% believe that EGW thought I was a traitor, so I don't think he's mafia, not even in a 2-2 scenario. Yet his play is still so odd. If the game were still going if the 4 above were eliminated and we end up finding out it's not 2-2, I'd aim here as possible Indy. For a comparison game, take a look at Stellaris Mafia where he was Indy there.

Interesting thought process, will need to chew on this and read Stellaris Mafia when I get a chance (presuming it's still readily accessible).


As for your Heury and Gluelock reads:

Gluelock twice they've made some pretty strong claims based on easy to understand context and didn't really acknowledge that their argument was bunk. I think they're unlikely to be scum with Zeniba so if we can confirm there's only one NK and the dissenters' faction sent it (at least last night) then they're probably in the clear, but for right now it seems presumptive.

Same with Heury, I think you might be overreacting BCs especially since you did with me.

");