HaiLOWEEN 2023: AI apocalypse

[Seven]

Actually a little surprised I wasn't "visited" last night, wasn't expecting to survive the night phase tbh lol

Why?

I'm also gonna say that Zeniba's flip from my perspective pretty much confirms that Madge assigned alignment and roles with flavor in mind. Cause they're a human and what they did in the story makes sense with them being a cop (or a role cop). Unless GERTY doesn't make sense, I don't know the character.

That means scum probably have safeclaims BUT sanity checking roles with flavor will probably be useful for picking out false claims because they'll have to adjust their roleclaims based on the state of claimed night actions they claim which is where it will be useful because it might not match up with flavor claims. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

I have no thoughts on the flavor identity of the other mafia right now.

I assure you, continuing down that line leads to nowhere. You're not going to be able to solve any part of the game through flavor claims. Any good mod develops their games in a way where scum can't be outed by flavor claims.

I agree there are likely two scum teams and that the setup is 9-2-2. This puts bessie and heury back on the map then since they are probably pretending to be masons like me and bessie did as scum together in Sumting Sumting mafia.

[Seven]

Gluelock is town and I will die for them.

Bluelock is who was targeted.

[AdumbroDeus]

Why would they want to do that with their scimbuddies? It makes more sense if moody is otherscum, they pretty much sealed Zeniba's fate, Mak probably would've on principal but we had no way of knowing they'd come back before the deadline. It was 5-5 with Seven getting there first. Heury seems the better partner choice for a Zeniba partner. Also do you know if that night resolution suggests two nightkills with one blocked?

If I recall correctly, Moody was willing to vote Seven, but only voted Zeniba when Boom pushed for it, and there was discussion around Zeniba before him listing Zeniba as one of his options. If anything, the person to seal Zeniba's fate was you, which I give you credit for. On night resolution: I have no idea about how Madge and Sabrar host. My first time in a Madge game, I just signed up and now I'm here. I will say I am confused at the results. I think your last sentence makes most sense, that Boomfrog was likely protected, but still died retroactively as a bodyguard. So then we have to consider his townreads, who would he target in this case? Between Heury and Moody, Moody actually seems to have weird points to him. Although keep in mind that Moody was voting Heury before that. I will look at the posts you mention with reference to Heury at the moment, but Moody is the better fit for me here.

Sort of, me, boomfrog and moody all doomed them in different ways. Moody turned them into presumptive lynch.

That said, I misremembered FF was in the thread at that point but not caught up and had been drinking, so no guarantees they'd figure out what was going on well enough to seal an inactive lynch, but makes them taking credit more plausible."

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Actually a little surprised I wasn't "visited" last night, wasn't expecting to survive the night phase tbh lol

Why?

probably being arrogant again.

I'm also gonna say that Zeniba's flip from my perspective pretty much confirms that Madge assigned alignment and roles with flavor in mind. Cause they're a human and what they did in the story makes sense with them being a cop (or a role cop). Unless GERTY doesn't make sense, I don't know the character.

That means scum probably have safeclaims BUT sanity checking roles with flavor will probably be useful for picking out false claims because they'll have to adjust their roleclaims based on the state of claimed night actions they claim which is where it will be useful because it might not match up with flavor claims. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

I have no thoughts on the flavor identity of the other mafia right now.

I assure you, continuing down that line leads to nowhere. You're not going to be able to solve any part of the game through flavor claims. Any good mod develops their games in a way where scum can't be outed by flavor claims.

I agree there are likely two scum teams and that the setup is 9-2-2. This puts bessie and heury back on the map then since they are probably pretending to be masons like me and bessie did as scum together in Sumting Sumting mafia.

The issue isn't designing so much as their own actions hurting their claim.

Heury is Zeniba's most likely scummate.

");

[EGW]

Bluelock is who was targeted.

I doubt this heavily. Yet at the same time, I'm going to give Glue some breathing room. I want to see what they can contribute.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Gluelock is town and I will die for them.

Bluelock is who was targeted.

Good catch.
");

[Seven]

the issue isn't designing so much as their own actions hurting their claim.

What do you mean? I've been in several of these games now, flavor claims aren't alignment indicative. Just look at the Stranger Things one from last year.

[EGW]

I agree there are likely two scum teams and that the setup is 9-2-2. This puts bessie and heury back on the map then since they are probably pretending to be masons like me and bessie did as scum together in Sumting Sumting mafia.

Who do you think is Mafia at this juncture?

[AdumbroDeus]

the issue isn't designing so much as their own actions hurting their claim.

What do you mean? I've been in several of these games now, flavor claims aren't alignment indicative. Just look at the Stranger Things one from last year.

I think this is a game where flavor is taken into account for alignment and roles and I'm basing this on the Zeniba flip, and that likely includes safeclains. I can't speak for boomfrog because I don't know their character so if I'm being stupid and it makes no sense as a bodyguard please feel free to let me know.

But I think we should table this discussion for now. Don't want to shake our more role information that could help scum.

");

[Seven]

I agree there are likely two scum teams and that the setup is 9-2-2. This puts bessie and heury back on the map then since they are probably pretending to be masons like me and bessie did as scum together in Sumting Sumting mafia.

Who do you think is Mafia at this juncture?

Many possibilities. We're playing hard mode since scum have also probably been looking for scum.

[heuristically_alone]

Laserguy probably not scum with Zeniba too due to helping carry it past the finish line and encouraging it.

Ummm where did Laserguy encourage it?

System.out.println("@boomfrog, @Seven, @Laser, how would you feel about a Zeniba lynch?

@Bessie, I know you want Seven dead but I'd like your opinion too.

I'd really like Mak on for some sanity checks on things and helping grab a lynch, but I get a feeling they won't be around in time and Madge rejected me sending them a text prod.

");

I'd be willing to do Zeniba. Not a first choice since I kind of like that one post out of Fred, but I agree there's not really anything else there to speak of. Better than Seven for sure.

Unsure of current VC. Will vote Zeniba if/when needed.

If I've been keeping track correctly, it's Seven at 4 votes (bessie, EGW, heury, somi) and Zeniba 4 votes (BF, Seven, Adum, me).

Thanks.

Vote: Zeniba

FoS

[heuristically_alone]

As for setup, 9-2-2 makes the most sense. Going back to thinking of my early interaction with Somi, I'm leaning town based on their response to me.

If Seven's claim is real and he's scum, it'd be a weird ability in a 2 scum teams game.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Laserguy probably not scum with Zeniba too due to helping carry it past the finish line and encouraging it.

Ummm where did Laserguy encourage it?

System.out.println("@boomfrog, @Seven, @Laser, how would you feel about a Zeniba lynch?

@Bessie, I know you want Seven dead but I'd like your opinion too.

I'd really like Mak on for some sanity checks on things and helping grab a lynch, but I get a feeling they won't be around in time and Madge rejected me sending them a text prod.

");

I'd be willing to do Zeniba. Not a first choice since I kind of like that one post out of Fred, but I agree there's not really anything else there to speak of. Better than Seven for sure.

Unsure of current VC. Will vote Zeniba if/when needed.

If I've been keeping track correctly, it's Seven at 4 votes (bessie, EGW, heury, somi) and Zeniba 4 votes (BF, Seven, Adum, me).

Thanks.

Vote: Zeniba

FoS

This does not read as a good faith post. The literal first thing you're quoting is, "they're agreeing to it as seemingly the best compromise to save seven" and follows up by jumping on when it takes off. Can't see any universe where calling the former "encouraging" is inaccurate.

But actually thanks more bringing that up, moody didn't turn Seven into the presumptive lynch. Laser did, moody just brought it to 4-4. So EGW's post had a bit more weight about the lynch wagon.

");

[heuristically_alone]

Encouraging implies an action on others, unless you mean laserguy was encouraging themself.

[JC_DADDY25]

@EGW

Ithink it was you kept saying Zen was scum last day phase, were you talking about Zeniba or Seven? I think that was something that kept getting me confused. You may have clarified already, but I just want to make sure.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Encouraging implies an action on others, unless you mean laserguy was encouraging themself.

They said it as part of the process of the negotiations for an alternative to seven. Context matters, and in that context signalling support is convincing others the lynch is viable which is encouraging it.

But fine "he signalled support when negotiating for an alternative to seven which helped convince people it was a viable lynch and move it past the finish line which likely wouldn't have been possible without that support, making him moderately less likely to be Zeniba's scummate".

There, you happy now? Sheesh, and EWG has an issue with me being verbose.

Its an odd semantics argument and I definitely ain't a fan of it even if you weren't already the best candidate for her scummate.

");

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

@Bessie congrats on finally being able to vote somi without feeling guilty about it?

");

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Supposed to be a !, not a ?.

");

[LaserGuy]

System.out.println("

Actually a little surprised I wasn't "visited" last night, wasn't expecting to survive the night phase tbh lol

The Zeniba flip has implications.

Firstly, Zeniba being a cop suggests that we have at least one indy, but I'm thinking it's more likely we have two Mafias. However I've known some mods to call "role cops" just "cops" and would appreciate if @anyone would confirm whether Madge does this. If it's a second scumteam I'd argue we're probably looking at a 9-2-2game whereas if it's a Indy I'd say 9-3-1. Would love anyone with insight into how Madge builds would appreciate info. I don't really have thoughts on how a pro town Indy would affect this.

Role cop and cop are generally considered separate roles and I would usually expect them to be stated as such. Multiball or one or more indies I think are possible. Maybe even both. Madge is very chaotic neutral and loves to throw the kitchen sink into every game. Sabrar does act as a good restraining force so the setup should be reasonably balanced, for some definition of balance.

If Seven was scum with Zeniba as the presumptive lynch target, if they were scum with Zeniba were feel reasonably mixed about the proposal of Zeniba as a compromise Lynch as the other slot and they were also gunning for JC as just scum. Don't know their bussing meta though, wagon behavior is NAI.

FWIW, Seven considers bussing super suboptimal and almost never does it.

[LaserGuy]

Moody is scum. His initial points on Bessie were too gracious, and his sudden change of read seemed disingenuous. Zeniba pushing him for seeming no solid reason, also makes the push make sense as informed. I'm going to re-read but at the moment that throws a kink in my Zen read. I admit I'm wrong on him (and by extension, Adum)

Vote: Moody

This seems like a very strange play from Zeniba.

I think this is a pretty good place to start though.

Vote: EGW

[LaserGuy]

I agree there are likely two scum teams and that the setup is 9-2-2. This puts bessie and heury back on the map then since they are probably pretending to be masons like me and bessie did as scum together in Sumting Sumting mafia.

I'm not sure how easy that would be to pull off without daychat. If they did manage it, I'm super impressed, but I think Occam's Razor points to them probably being fine.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Role cop and cop are generally considered separate roles and I would usually expect them to be stated as such. Multiball or one or more indies I think are possible. Maybe even both. Madge is very chaotic neutral and loves to throw the kitchen sink into every game. Sabrar does act as a good restraining force so the setup should be reasonably balanced, for some definition of balance.

I agree with "should".

What do you think of the kill text, seems to imply a kill was sent in on BF failed and then they died anyway.

If Seven was scum with Zeniba as the presumptive lynch target, if they were scum with Zeniba were feel reasonably mixed about the proposal of Zeniba as a compromise Lynch as the other slot and they were also gunning for JC as just scum. Don't know their bussing meta though, wagon behavior is NAI.

FWIW, Seven considers bussing super suboptimal and almost never does it.

Useful insight, thanks.

");

[EGW]

Zeniba's vote on Moody sticks out like a sore thumb. Yet she did that, and did nothing else. This is coming from a player that doesn't normally vote.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

@Seven, to clarify I'm assuming the mason thing happened in your neighborhood chat unless you're referring to something I missed.

");

[LaserGuy]

System.out.println("

Role cop and cop are generally considered separate roles and I would usually expect them to be stated as such. Multiball or one or more indies I think are possible. Maybe even both. Madge is very chaotic neutral and loves to throw the kitchen sink into every game. Sabrar does act as a good restraining force so the setup should be reasonably balanced, for some definition of balance.

I agree with "should".

What do you think of the kill text, seems to imply a kill was sent in on BF failed and then they died anyway.

The protection only blocking one kill but not both seems plausible to me, or possibly Boom's bodyguard ability wasn't able to gain protection but he was able to block the other. Mafia may have some abilities that can interfere with power roles (Strongman, etc.). Hard to say without a full flip.