HaiLOWEEN 2023: AI apocalypse

[Seven]

Also for what it's worth, I don't find Adum suspicious anymore. I liked how he responded to my push and the way he has been approaching Laserguy and others. I think Laser is also playing from a town stand point, this mostly comes from experience.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

The two of you are talking past each other.

Adum's argument:
-Laser misinterpreted Mak's post as serious.
-Bessie and others have indicated that Laser is a top tier player
-A top-tier player wouldn't interpret Mak's post a serious. (e.g. wouldn't make the mistake)
-Therefore Laser is probably being ingenuine in his observations

What Laser was actually saying about Mak:
-Mak made a joke about the town flavor being survivalist
-A player is predisposed trying to understand their wincondition
-Therefore, as town, that bit about the flavor stood out to Mak

The part where Laser mentions Mak mistook the flavor is irrelevant to Laser's understanding that it was a joke. Boomfrog and others also took Mak as misunderstanding the Flavor.

Is that a fair assessment?

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

That's why I said \"In as much detail as possible.\"

I was explicitly doing a check to see if you were treating it as a joke, that was the main point of my question because I was wondering if you were acting like Marshy from the aforementioned game.

");

[LaserGuy]

Oh, I understand. Yeah, no, that's completely backward--I was defending her for not having one.

[LaserGuy]

Sorry, multiple ninjas, that was in reply to Seven on the previous game.

[LaserGuy]

Page even.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Oh, I understand. Yeah, no, that's completely backward--I was defending her for not having one.

Entirely is a bit oversimplified, you did say that the critique wasn't entirely invalid after taking a look at millerizer mafia, you previously defended Bessie based on overall experience than using Sorc's.

This should've been questioned more before an accusation. It's not clear why heuristic thought EGW's reason for disliking Bessie was yours.
");

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("
Makhaira: as stated previously, reads like an unfairly put upon townie in the thing with boomfrog. Not much else given lack of content. Town lean.

Moody: participated in spreading misinformation after it was pointed out. Didn't seem to double down (based on how I'm reading their Mak entry in their realistic). Slight scum-lean. Doubtful they'd be scum with Mak.

Seven: their explosion on me based on expecting a scumread for a post that's main issue was being hard to parse is consistent with somebody whose last game with me had me on their slot the entire game. Their subsequent interactions, and specifically the questions they asked me in response suggest the gears in their mind are going in a scum hunting direction. Town.

LaserGuy: put my case above as to why they're scummy. I will note that on re-read I like their handling of the questions on Bessie a lot more, willingness to rethink conclusions is a town trait. Shifting to a scum lean. Again, probably not scum with Mak.

Bessie: I ain't got no clue how to read this slot. That's why I was making every excuse to talk to them so I could try to get into their head. The posting pattern makes it even harder. Null.

heury: I would've liked to actually get to question them more before people jumped in. However, coming in half-cocked with a scumread that's not fully thought out rhymes much more with scum than with town regardless of reason. Unless they're a newbie which I don't think so. Scum lean.

Boomfrog: right now waiting patiently for them to finish their experiment. Null for now.


People I didn't mention I don't have real thoughts on yet. Should have free time to look into ranmaru and glue lock on Friday, hopefully our inactive and replacement have more by then.

");

[LaserGuy]

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

[somitomi]

Ok, so yesterday I shot myself in the foot by way of procrastination and when I read all the backlog earlier today, none of that resulted in any sort of insight, thought or impression. Past data indicates there is literally no point in wringing my processor over that again, so sod it, y'all get a big fat nulltown read for now as acknowledgment that I'm outclassed here and I accept my inevitable demise at the end of D1

Disagree. And interesting. What did you think I would say?

I did not see you calling the acceptable confirm posts suspicious. This is obviously a failure of my predictive models

Okay, see, anything else I found interesting...

I don't think it is alignment indicative (if anything, openly admitting to scummy behaviour is kinda townie for newish players). I'll agree that it is unhelpful and it would probably be better for them to just dive into the thread and do their best, but it's early enough in the game that I am fine with allowing them the time to acclimatize and see what they do.

+1, QFT and what have you

If this is your definition of absurd multi-posting I'm scared. I'm a mid-low poster in MU terms but now I'm going to be a lot more cautious of my post count. (Seriously how tf do people in MU post 150 comments each over a 48 day phase, I struggle to hit half of that...)

As long as you post more than me, you're golden

On your second paragraph, you being new doesn't invalidate the fact that you know your role pm, and will act accordingly, and especially since you posted soon after I posted content. You were lurking while there was a vote on you. Generally newer players will try to act calm or avoid pressure to seem composed, that's my concern with you.

Can you elaborate on how this pertains to Gluelock's alignment or your impression thereof?

Vote: moody7277

Hi

Somi, probably not alignment indicative but maybe some would be less enthused in an Indy role?

You know me too well

I am moderately worried about Laserguy. Concerned with some reads, such as Bessie, might be seeing up a mislynch as Bessie's playstyle is notoriously townie. Will be interested to see more of Laser's evidence.

I swear to god I went over Laser's post like three times and I can't see where he's throwing shade at bessie
Heury gets updated to a FoS

[Makhaira]

Overly concerned with voting for a "random" reason. This is a serious vote.

Boom. Why does that make Adumbro mafia here?

Scum are more likely to play a caricature of their townie selves. Following rituals and traditions more then they would if they didn't have to imagine their fake-townie-selves actions. Town would make a random vote if they felt like it or just skip it. Scum are more likely to have mentally pre planned to make a random vote and stick to that plan even if it's a little awkward, and emphasize that it's random. Emphasizing the vote especially turns the whole thing into toothless fluff.

It's performative instead of purposeful.

this is a good answer and is what I assumed the reasoning was before this explanation

stuff like this illustrates why its important not to answer questions for others

Ha Adum I thought you might have thought that I was Xiivi. You are correct that Xiivi and I are different people. I am Xivii.

this cracked me up, out of context and without background smashboards knowledge it reads almost like deliberate trolling lmao when it is in fact a legitimate clarification

Vote: moody7277

hard post for an entrance

Vote: EGW

Why? What are your reads?

I like this vote. Vote: EGW

Why? What are your scumreads?

Bessie read: +4.

Why did you give Bessie 4 points here? Any scumreads?

Overly concerned with voting for a "random" reason. This is a serious vote.

Boom. Why does that make Adumbro mafia here?

Glossing over the boomfrog-Makhaira interaction because reasons. We shall see if I am correct.

Can you elaborate here? Who do you think is scum?

[*]Needs more George, Blue, and JC.

Who is Blue?

I do not like this post, this doesn't feel like authentic scumhunting heury at all, more like filler. also confused that heury doesn't realize they are quoting my RVS vote and asking about it in earnest

Somi, probably not alignment indicative but maybe some would be less enthused in an Indy role?

Absolutely not. Somi is more engaged as scum in general. This is Halloween 2021 somi (he was town there right?). The game with ressurection.

this doesn't match my recollection at all, somi doesnt tend to be the most active but Ive always felt they lurked more as scum. Ill go look at Halloween but but I feel like even our last last game sorcerers demonstrates lurky scum!somi

This feels super TMI to me, honestly. bessie's playstyle being townie does not mean that she is Town. How do you know she's a misyeet?

FWIW, I have played with bessie more than, I think, any other player in mafia, except possibly Sabrar or somitomi. I have good meta on her and can read her well enough that it was kind of a meme at one point in time that I always knew her alignment.

Moving heury to scum lean.

I don't think it's TMI. This looks like heury thinking observing closely and thinking ahead. If it is scum heury than it is with scum bessie and he is trying to circumvent a push there by you.

are you saying that bessie's playstyle in general is notoriously townie? or are you saying that about this game specifically?

To clarify, I think the thinking ahead comes from either alignment (as scum, he's trying to prevent an elimination of a teammate). I actually do think he is probably a wolf. I just also think bessie is a wolf.

Heury speculating that somi is indy is one of the reasons why I think he's a wolf (finds somi suspicious but knows he's not mafia).

I was not expecting this clarification. so you're saying that you think an early laser push on bessie would be perceived by scum!heury as enough of a threat of building momentum against bessies slot that it would warrant deliberate early intervention to ward it off? even when laser has specifically said he is trying not to be as aggro D1 this game? following that line, do you think scum!heury interprets laser's representation to that effect as a bluff?

[Makhaira]

botched quotes, going to try to separate these out for clarity

Vote: EGW

Why? What are your reads?

I like this vote. Vote: EGW

Why? What are your scumreads?

Bessie read: +4.

Why did you give Bessie 4 points here? Any scumreads?

Overly concerned with voting for a "random" reason. This is a serious vote.

Boom. Why does that make Adumbro mafia here?

Glossing over the boomfrog-Makhaira interaction because reasons. We shall see if I am correct.

Can you elaborate here? Who do you think is scum?

[*]Needs more George, Blue, and JC.

Who is Blue?

I do not like this post, this doesn't feel like authentic scumhunting heury at all, more like filler. also confused that heury doesn't realize they are quoting my RVS vote and asking about it in earnest

[Makhaira]

Somi, probably not alignment indicative but maybe some would be less enthused in an Indy role?

Absolutely not. Somi is more engaged as scum in general. This is Halloween 2021 somi (he was town there right?). The game with ressurection.

this doesn't match my recollection at all, somi doesnt tend to be the most active but Ive always felt they lurked more as scum. Ill go look at Halloween but but I feel like even our last last game sorcerers demonstrates lurky scum!somi

[Makhaira]

I am moderately worried about Laserguy. Concerned with some reads, such as Bessie, might be seeing up a mislynch as Bessie's playstyle is notoriously townie. Will be interested to see more of Laser's evidence.

This feels super TMI to me, honestly. bessie's playstyle being townie does not mean that she is Town. How do you know she's a misyeet?

FWIW, I have played with bessie more than, I think, any other player in mafia, except possibly Sabrar or somitomi. I have good meta on her and can read her well enough that it was kind of a meme at one point in time that I always knew her alignment.

Moving heury to scum lean.

I don't think it's TMI. This looks like heury thinking observing closely and thinking ahead. If it is scum heury than it is with scum bessie and he is trying to circumvent a push there by you.

are you saying that bessie's playstyle in general is notoriously townie? or are you saying that about this game specifically?

[Makhaira]

To clarify, I think the thinking ahead comes from either alignment (as scum, he's trying to prevent an elimination of a teammate). I actually do think he is probably a wolf. I just also think bessie is a wolf.

Heury speculating that somi is indy is one of the reasons why I think he's a wolf (finds somi suspicious but knows he's not mafia).

I was not expecting this clarification. so you're saying that you think an early laser push on bessie would be perceived by scum!heury as enough of a threat of building momentum against bessies slot that it would warrant deliberate early intervention to ward it off? even when laser has specifically said he is trying not to be as aggro D1 this game? following that line, do you think scum!heury interprets laser's representation to that effect as a bluff?

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

I want to expand on heuristic a bit. They came off rather disconnected from the current gamestate, which is understandable given the game started moving pretty fast after seven's accusation of me.

The initial laserguy read was unprompted, they only gave a hint of their rationale after I questioned them twice on it with the first response essentially being a reiteration of their prior suspicions.

System.out.println("

Care to expand on why you feel Laserguy might be setting up a mislynch on Bessie?

");

I disagree and am surprised by laserguy's assessment. Can't wait to hear future thoughts.

Yes that's obvious, I'm asking \"what issues you take with what specific things laserguy has said about Bessie?\"

");

Interestingly they did not quote my post, but the context makes it obvious who it was a response to, Iwas the one questioning them on the laserguy read.

Combine that with the fact that they gave this right after I gave my case on laser and I had recently been questioning them.

(We already know the case is objectively wrong and they're putting Ran's rationale on Laserguy)

Providing an excuse that can be used to jump on a wagon rather than genuinely thinking through a slot is scummy. I don't think they expected me to interrogate them on it so much when I was also on Laser.

And yes, Heuristic and Laser being scum together is very unlikely if Heuristic is looking for wagon jumping excuses. Sacrifice play is possible, but I don't think my case has seriously threatened Laser and it would have to be an independent decision from Heuristic because the rules specify that all chat is nightchat.

As I said, I wanted to get a better idea where heuristic's head was at before accusations, because some variations of this might come from confused townie, especially from newer player, which I don't think they are. But in general when trying to just say something to contribute (or \"contribute\"), I don't see the town incentive of a scum lean on a slot you don't fully understand.

");

[Zeniba]

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

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[Makhaira]

current reads

Town:

Adum - legitimately scum hunting, applying appropriate pressure, actually took the time to gain an independent understanding of where the disconnect was between me and BF on the favor post showing actually investigative effort

Seven - taking meaningful positions and engagement with other slots feels organic

Boomfrog - early pushes felt like they were in good faith and actually feels like he was processing responses to his pushes, not just doubling down and chainsawing whoever he felt he could sink his teeth into

Neutral:

Laserguy - felt off meta wise at first but when he said he was deliberately trying to be less aggro D1 it made more sense. kind of with adum though that it was weird that he felt I legitimately believed there was a survivor wincon implied by the flavor when I clearly used "/s" so indicate I was being sarcastic. he is right though that I think survivor is a toxic role, but is wrong that thats why I got hung up on the conflict with boom. I was hung up on it because I was accused of not reading carefully, when maintain that my interpretation is the only one strictly supported by a careful reading of the text, whereas those attacking me were inserting their own inferences not supported by explicit text

Glue - having trouble reading this slot tbh

Fredd/Zeniba - not enough content

JC - not enough content

Bessie: feels a little defensive this game but having trouble parsing why but I dont trust myself to meta read bessie because I really dont have a good grasp of her meta. will need more time and probably an ISO to sort this slot

Scum:

EGW - my vote was RVS but he has not done anything to town ping me so far this game. my meta on ran is that he tends to be more inquisitive D1 and im not seeing that energy here

Somitomi - seems disengaged which is my meta for scum!somi

Heury - seems off from the much more obviously town!heury play I saw in sorcerers, not reacting to votes in the way Id expect

Moody - not getting any sense of authentic scumhunting from this slot, didn't like their opportunistic dogpiling on me after BF's push without even attempting to understand where the disagreement was coming from in stark contrast to adum, point assignment posts feel arbitrary and fillery

Vote: Moody as strongest scum lean but open to anyone in my scum pile

[LaserGuy]

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

Errors were encountered while processing. The package cannot be authenticated.

Does that mean the image doesn't display for you?

It's basically
Town <------moody---Zeni--Seven--Mak-Glue--Boom--Adum-(JC=Somi=Null)--EGW----heury-bessie-----> Scum

[LaserGuy]

Somi, probably not alignment indicative but maybe some would be less enthused in an Indy role?

You know me too well

Is this an indy claim?

[LaserGuy]

It seems the main reason is Laserguy is suspicious of lack of reads list at this point, which I think is a weak read for Bessie at this point.

I've posted a number of reads throughout the game so far. I won't do a full readslist until much closer to EoD, but I've been posting my thoughts in thread about people as I go. I have made reads of you, moody, Makhaira, BoomFrog, Adum, bessie and EGW so far.

He's saying that your main reason for finding bessie suspicious is her not doing a read list. (But that was George's reasoning, not yours).

I do find it vaguely amusing that I am being scumread by Adum for 'being good enough not to make mistakes', when my ISO this game is absolutely littered with a bazillion typos, misquotes, and misunderstandings like this one .

[LaserGuy]

It's interesting how you are changing the perspective on my quotes. I never said that your read was correct. I simply said that you were able to interpret correctly. Seven's claim was: Adum is mafia because I know Adum and X, Y, and Z are true things that I know about him. Now, if you did not know Seven at all, your reaction would most likely not be "No, X, Y, and Z are not true things about me", but rather "I don't know Seven at all, there is no way for him to know X, Y, or Z about me". You literally cannot interpret and respond to his claim properly without that context, because his claim would be nonsense to you.

That's definitely not a concept I'd use "interpret correctly" to express. It's "why did I act in a manner that suggests I knew them when I didn't"?

I meant interpret in the very literal sense of 'understand the meaning of'. Perhaps 'parse correctly' would have been more clear.

I feel that our playstyles and approaches to the game are very orthogonal to each other and it's making it very difficult for me to sort you at the moment.

[heuristically_alone]

are you saying that bessie's playstyle in general is notoriously townie? or are you saying that about this game specifically?

Notoriously townie

heury: I would've liked to actually get to question them more before people jumped in. However, coming in half-cocked with a scumread that's not fully thought out rhymes much more with scum than with town regardless of reason. Unless they're a newbie which I don't think so. Scum lean.

I don't believe I'd flat out called anything a scum read yet.

He's saying that your main reason for finding bessie suspicious is her not doing a read list. (But that was George's reasoning, not yours).

I may have mixed people together when reading. To be clear it's more of FoS then a scum lean on Laserguy. I just want to hear more what from Bessie's content Laserguy is talking about. Because Bessie seems spot on typical town D1 Bessie as far as I see, though do admit Laserguy has played more with her.

are you saying that bessie's playstyle in general is notoriously townie? or are you saying that about this game specifically?

To clarify, I think the thinking ahead comes from either alignment (as scum, he's trying to prevent an elimination of a teammate). I actually do think he is probably a wolf. I just also think bessie is a wolf.

Heury speculating that somi is indy is one of the reasons why I think he's a wolf (finds somi suspicious but knows he's not mafia).

I was not expecting this clarification. so you're saying that you think an early laser push on bessie would be perceived by scum!heury as enough of a threat of building momentum against bessie's slot that it would warrant deliberate early intervention to ward it off? even when laser has specifically said he is trying not to be as aggro D1 this game? following that line, do you think scum!heury interprets laser's representation to that effect as a bluff?

I challenge anyone to find any scum game of me where I've ever defended my scum partner.

[boomfrog]

@LaserGuy, Why did you think Mak thought his town wincon was actually survivor flavored? Even missing the "/s" I don't understand how you made the mistake.

[heuristically_alone]

Mostly phone posting this game, so forgive quoting errors.

[boomfrog]

System.out.println("

As I said, I wanted to get a better idea where heuristic's head was at before accusations, because some variations of this might come from confused townie, especially from newer player, which I don't think they are. But in general when trying to just say something to contribute (or \"contribute\"), I don't see the town incentive of a scum lean on a slot you don't fully understand.

");

For the record. Heury has been missyeeted frequently in the past for misunderstandings. He's... a sub-par explainer of his thoughts in my experience.