Sorcerer's 11 Mafia - xkcd edition - Game Over

[EGW]

I'm not sold on Fred wagon. I am more interested in him giving a few suspects and town reads if he has them.

[somitomi]

quick post

Can you elaborate on this?

I find it odd that Adum decided to comment on that discrepancy without acknowledging the explanation I've given in any way, but I don't really know the significance of that

So I don't think your later comment really was useful, but I don't have a firm read on what the possible implications (which is why I would've like to see the question answered before Doop jumped in) are so it's more an "I've got my eye on you" than a concrete read.

Just to be clear, which later comment are you talking about here?

[moody7277]

Unfortunately, I won't be available at EOD. It feels icky to me to leave my vote where it was in RVS, so:

Unvote

Vote: Maven

My other scummy read, hasn't done squat except for a dumb joke.

[EGW]

Hello Moody. How do you feel about the Bessie and Fred wagons before you go?

[moody7277]

Based on my read of bessie right now, there is no way I'd vote for her, and Fred is looking more awkward newb than actively scummy, so I'm not happy with either wagon atm.

[somitomi]

Unfortunately, I won't be available at EOD. It feels icky to me to leave my vote where it was in RVS, so:

Unvote

Vote: Maven

My other scummy read, hasn't done squat except for a dumb joke.

I don't really like voting for inactivity on D1, it tends to give us little information if we're wrong about it (which seems to be more likely than not).

Actually, I might not be here at deadline either sadly, so proper reads will have to wait, but I'd rather
Vote: Makhaira
for telling Fred to claim and doing little except be defensive about that since then

[EGW]

Somitomi, why are you voting there when you have expressed a suspicion on Bessie? I'm not into that vote.

[somitomi]

Somitomi, why are you voting there when you have expressed a suspicion on Bessie? I'm not into that vote.

bessie is a bit of a mixed bag and while I am suspicious, I don't dislike everything she's said so far so I'm willing to give us another day to tunnel each other
Makhaira feels anti-town to me in a way that reminds me of a previous game we played together as mafia.

[EGW]

Somitomi drags his feet when it comes to reads that he states he has. Here he is agreeable, as opposed to being sassy and purposely argumentative in Millerizer mafia. He votes outside of his suspicions, and doesn't pressure or ask them questions. His word count and post length is also less than Millerizer Mafia. I support wagons on Somi and Bessie.

FoS: Somitomi

[EGW]

quotes

I can, but I'd like to wait for some people to post before I do if that's all right with you.

While I did take that opportunity to tease you you you, some of that applies to moody's cynical view suggesting I had to be saved as well. Doop's clarification feels like it's coming from a townie place, particularly because I think this is our first game together so they don't know me and could've just assumed I was relatively new to this. At the same time, I can also see where EGW is coming from, me saying it always having been a joke is less credible after that, so if I had to pin this down, I'd say that's a tvt discussion.

Ok, that's fair, you don't necessarily end up with more scumreads than there are scum in the setup. I don't either, sometimes it's less, sometimes it happens to line up (it's not working out for me at all right now, but that's just the D1 experience). I've been purposefully argumentative about this to see if anything falls out, but this seems to boil down to us being different kinds of players.

[Seven]

Vote Count (1.4)
bessie (3) - Fred, Doop, EGW
Fred (2) - Mak, bessie
Mak (2) - Adum, somi
Somi (1) - Heury
Moody (1) - Maven
Maven (1) - Moody

Not Voting (1): PJ

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to eliminate.

History

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

doo > fre
heu > som
egw > moo
moo > heu
mav > doo
fre > bes
adu x sev
mak > adu
doo > adu

mav > moo
mak > fre
doo > bes
egw > doo
adu > mak
egw > unv

bes > fre

egw > bes
moo > mav
som > mak

Mod Musing: Even though 'egw' is technically 3 letters, it feels relatively longer to type than the first three letters of everyone else's username in the vote history. This is likely because for the other names, the first three letters are cognitively chunked into a single linguistic unit. This itself is a fact that the arrangement of phonemes allows for a consistent flow (a center vowel, a consonant surrounded by two vowels, or a vowel next to a consonant cluster). Whereas for 'egw,' I pronounce each letter separately, and thus use more mental resources.

[EGW]

Dooplissity, thoughts on Somitomi's overall play?

[Dooplissity]

I don't know that I have any that are coherent right now. I would sort of vaguely say scumlean but I'm not really basing that on anything. I'll be able to do a more thorough check closer to deadline when it's my lunch hour.

[Makhaira]

I very seriously think that the various slots saying Im scummy for suggesting an early claim from fred are having an outsized reaction to that suggestion. The loss of a PR in this setup for town is relatively low impact, this is not a PR heavy or PR centralized game and experience players should be able to assess that relative risk appropriately

Adum says I should "know better" which I would say back to him given the value an early claim could have in generating discussion and introducing information to the general discourse that other slots can interact with to possible create TMI type opportunities for scum to reveal themselves. Bessie says she just hates all claiming which I guess is fair but is also a convenient out and excuse for not assessing the relative risk of an early claim is this particular setup

Somi feels bandwagonny, but them saying Im coming off as "anti town" as I did when we were scummates actually feels genuine and not like a contrived meta read to justify piling on

Adum I think is failing to see the forest for the trees, somi probably over relying on a gut read, and bessie overcommited to a principle to the point that shes seeing scumminess where there is just a philosophical difference in our approach to the game

I also think its weird that bessie is saying im scummy for telling a slot to claim but she is voting for that very slot, feels a bit inconsistent

Vote: Bessie

Ill take EGWs hand on this one

[Makhaira]

For your other question, if you're starting from the standpoint that everyone looks townie start of D1, then you would go with the most charitable interpretation and work from there. That's part of the reason I use Cynical View, because he starts from the opposite side and it lets me contrast the two interpretations.

ok I mean I guess this is an interesting mental exercise to like try to arrive at truth through juxtaposition of maximally charitable/uncharitable interpretations of peoples' contributions but I still dont understand why you wouldnt at some point be open to the interpretation that the idea was arrived at independently. Like youre saying you wouldn't consider that possibility using the cynical view, but now youre telling me the cynical view is actually only half the equation and you actually contrast it with a maximally charitable interpretation as part of your process? Like isnt that the very consideration we're talking about?

[Makhaira]

Current reads

Town:

EGW - actually seems to be scumhunting
Doop - effortposting but doesnt seem to be muddying the waters trying to derail people
Heury - maybe tryin to snow me with early buddying but I like that they havent flipped to fit the majority take on my take re: fred
Adum - tonally matches my meta for town!adum, kinda doubt scum!adum comes for me right out the gate over something so small

Neutral:

PJ - not enough content
Maven - not enough content
Somi - weird meta read on me but it kinda seems genuine so probably just a townie being wrong about a gut read
Moody - playstyle feels like overly sanitized/artificial but cant tell if its a genuine method theyre trying to employ to legit scum hunt or if its actually a formula theyre tryinf to stick to to avoid making scummy missteps

Scum:
Fred - still dont like his intro of basically making excuses ahead of time to not contribute or scumhunt, hasnt done anything to redeem that since
bessie - sheeping EGWs read and think her being suss of me asking a slot she is suss of to claim is a scummy thing to do, doesnt add up imo even tho shes couching it as a principled general objection

[Makhaira]

Ok wait deadline is in like 2 hours here, I thought it was gonna be a midnight deadline like usual instead of midday.

Im about to take my lunch break and Ill check the thread periodically between now and deadline but yeah def feel like most of us did not recognize the deadline looming so soon and we dont have a ton to work with here

[EGW]

Ill take EGWs hand on this one

[EGW]

Heury I have noticed that their play is much more tame and composed compared to their play in Millerizer Mafia. Fred seems to be my sorcerer pick at the moment for keeping his distance from the thread. Bessie and Somi make more sense as partners to each other.

[EGW]

One thing everyone should keep in mind is that Somi as scum has a hard time faking reads. Not only that, but he is playing reactively, instead of proactively with a purpose in mind.

[Dooplissity]

Where is everyone when we're right at deadline? I know Bessie is often busy mid-day but I really hate lynching blind.

As promised I read up on somi, and my slight scumlean remains.

I like the early indignation, and I think the logic is generally sound - on the other hand EGW is pretty right. There's some feet dragging and reticence I don't love, but it's hard for me to seperate out that from this site just being really passive about voting and scumhunting in general (plz fix this!) and there's a bit of overagreeableness mixed in with the sass that feels a little strange.

I don't feel strongly about it at all but it's just slightly past neutral.

[Dooplissity]

Current reads

Town:

EGW - actually seems to be scumhunting
Doop - effortposting but doesnt seem to be muddying the waters trying to derail people
Heury - maybe tryin to snow me with early buddying but I like that they havent flipped to fit the majority take on my take re: fred
Adum - tonally matches my meta for town!adum, kinda doubt scum!adum comes for me right out the gate over something so small

Neutral:

PJ - not enough content
Maven - not enough content
Somi - weird meta read on me but it kinda seems genuine so probably just a townie being wrong about a gut read
Moody - playstyle feels like overly sanitized/artificial but cant tell if its a genuine method theyre trying to employ to legit scum hunt or if its actually a formula theyre tryinf to stick to to avoid making scummy missteps

Scum:
Fred - still dont like his intro of basically making excuses ahead of time to not contribute or scumhunt, hasnt done anything to redeem that since
bessie - sheeping EGWs read and think her being suss of me asking a slot she is suss of to claim is a scummy thing to do, doesnt add up imo even tho shes couching it as a principled general objection

also I really like this reads list - it mirrors my own feelings very well and makes me think Mak is town

[EGW]

30 minutes left to deadline.

[EGW]

Somitomi as town is more like a thorn in my hide regardless of my alignment (a good thing), Somitomi as scum is agreeable and doesn't care to put his neck out for his own read development purposes. I think players here prefer more to have content like ordered reads lists to have something to keep themselves accountable.

[bessie]

I’m at work and on my phone. Brief post coming.