Millerizer Mafia - Game Over

[EGW]

Town [EGW > Bessie > Sabrar > Fred > Somitomi | Madge | Court > Heury > J] Scum

Vote: J

[EGW]

I forgot to put GAME WINNING READS oops

[Freddino18]

EGW: Abuse of formatting. -7

[EGW]

Hello Fred. How do you feel about the wagon on Court? Has any of your reads changed? Anything interesting caught your eye?

[Freddino18]

To be honest, nobody's really addressed my reads, other than to tell me I'm wrong for directly speculating on power roles. I think the Court train is morally wrong (still think there's a good chance he's not town, but not willing to commit), but the only other person who seems like we might eliminate today is J, and I'm not sure that's a good idea to push for, especially if he's town. What's your opinion of my own read on you? Do you feel like you have nothing to fear from an investigation?

[EGW]

What's your opinion of my own read on you? Do you feel like you have nothing to fear from an investigation?

I don't have anything to fear since I'm town. Town players also give back an innocent result. So it's much easier to be free and do what I feel is right. I am also indeed a try hard. I do agree with others that we should not speculate on roles because that can help mafia be able to read who may be what role so they could kill them at night. That's something you should note yourself, and it really is about being subtle. Why do you read J as town again in your own words? What do you think of my reasoning for why he's scum here?

[somitomi]

I am guessing that somitomi will come online soon, apologize for being absent today, explain how he would vote for Court but he’s not going to vote because it would cut off six valuable hours of discussion, and that he is going to sleep and won’t be up before deadline.

somitomi if you see this please leave an ordered list.

Well, I was gonna apologise because I started a catch-up post sometime in the afternoon and then I got distracted by various rather inconsequential things, but mow I don't feel like it.


Ugh, okay, I evidently had low energy for this to begin with and now I'm a bit pissy too, so there's not much chance of actually processing anything. I'm not sure how much point there is to this, because the neutral line is basically at the bottom.

cool
Sabrar
EGW
Freddino
bessie
Heury
Prince J
madge
Court
not that cool

You know what, I have no idea about the votals, I'm going to bed.

Vote: Court

______This is from the unfinished catch-up_______

When I do reads on any day, I usually have three to four scum picks. This game, one of those three included a millerizer read. I think having more than three, shows that one would be having their options open. I am finding your tone to be townie here (and quite stubborn as well), yet I also am finding your attitude here to be generally anti-town. At the start of the day, you asked me why I was making an early push. I'd rather push sooner than later to generate content, because I don't think it'd be a good idea to simply wait and then have no real idea who scum are by the time deadline hits. Also, let's talk about the under-lined. It doesn't really make sense for me to try to generate more scum picks than I had, because at that point, I would be forcing my reads and that's not going to help me determine who is scum with the accuracy that I want to. On the other hand, my acquisition of those scum picks were natural. At first, I had one scum pick of Madge, and then Court as Millerizer pick. Then I had progression here towards my scum read of Fred, because I was already questioning him here, and this was only two hours after he had posted. So I'm not trying to fill a quota, it happened naturally. I would be perfectly fine with having two if that was the case, however I would try to still improve my reads on others and actually work towards a solve.

Ok, that's fair, you don't necessarily end up with more scumreads than there are scum in the setup. I don't either, sometimes it's less, sometimes it happens to line up (it's not working out for me at all right now, but that's just the D1 experience). I've been purposefully argumentative about this to see if anything falls out, but this seems to boil down to us being different kinds of players.

[EGW]

That's Hammer. If Court flips millerizer, J and Heury are scum.

[madge]

ugh i had a horrible night's sleep sorry firends

I had a heck of a day and I'm out of energy. Fred has rallied so hard I'd suspect him of getting coaching from his mafia partner if they had daychat, which they don't (or I am pretty sure they don't from my last reading of the thread)

You get me super paranoid when you quote what I consider innocuous stuff I've said with this smiley that I don't understand the meaning of - I'm guessing it comes back to you thinking I'm second-guessing my own reads but people have been talking about scumreading me (for the crime of being - dare i tempt fate? - vintage madge) so yes I will admit the shameful secret that I don't want to be voted out because I would rather we didn't vote off the one person who is conftown FMPOV.

@bessie i sheep sabrar because, in his immortal words, "sheep me for an easy win". he's a better scumhunter than me (Elle Woods voice: what, like it's hard?). and if he's scum he's still motivated to find the milleriser/mafia in this setup, so i think it's low risk to sheep him on D1. D2 I have more to work with.

> Madge, as a mod, enjoys weird roles to an extreme degree (Sabrar)

yes and as a mod you're all "this is completely unbalanced" and "nobody would enjoy playing that" and "put your pants back on nobody wants to see that" learn to be fun, nerd

> [fred saying he thinks he'll be investigated or murdered]

the problem with investigations is i'm not actually sure how useful they are long-term since we're going to be full of millers. toMorrow I'll do some maths on it (i was gonna do it today but i'm tired and grumpy). it's going to get to the point where an innocent result is worse than a guilty result as there'll be say 3 millers and 2 non-millers, one of whom is the godfather. cops, when you share your results, please make sure you are clear which night you did the investigation on so we can work out roughly how many millers vs nonmillers there are so we can work out how much info we are getting

> bessie thinking it weird i changed my mind about court based on sabrar's read

the info sabrar gave me was new: court had reacted the same way to being on the chopping block as scum. i thought that there's no way scum would just lie down and take it, whereas town players often do because they're less motivated (less pressure) or they even think it's best for town to not have them around distracting everyone by having a scumread around always taking oxygen away from potential actual scum (I don't agaree: as i said above we are each our only conftown player and i don't want conftown being voted off thank u; but as you see bessie makes a good argument). so that was my only justification, which Sabrar indicated was invalid. i'd be quite happy to move to another player who is on my "blank" list, but the other thing is as you know i do self-preservation votes and people seem to want to vote me off

i'll be checking back in about an hour and a half, but tbh i think court's behaviour is objectively scummy (based on Sabrar's game report) and J's behaviour is just gut-nontown, so i prefer the court voteoff fow now

[madge]

EBWOP Somi just hammered Court, guys

[Freddino18]

I'm half-and-half on J, there's not really much actual content once you get past the back-slapping. I think his point on you asking questions of me was valid, as a tool to nail down my style of play, not for the actual information (or lack thereof) they provided. He's trying very hard to be a limp noodle, which can be interpreted into any of the three factions. The amount of useless info pushes me to assess a slight Millerizer lean.

Regarding being scared of coming up scum, I was specifically asking about your level of concern over the Millerizer setting up false reads, not whether or not you were the cop/godfather.

[madge]

The rules are not explicit but from here it implies that majority = no more posting:

Players may vote as normal during Dawn; however, players cannot be eliminated during this period. If a majority is reached during Dawn, players may still switch their votes. If majority remains by the end of Dawn, the elimination will carry out as normal at that point and the Day will end.

[Freddino18]

got ninja'd, sorry

[Seven]

Hammer, no more posting. For the future, you may indeed continue posting after a hammer until I've declared it.

[Seven]

With 9 alive it took 5 to eliminate.

Court (5): somitomi, Sabrar, madge, heuristically_alone, Prince J
Prince J (1): EGW
No Elimination (1): Fred
Not Voting (2): bessie, Court

Court has been eliminated! He was Town.

It is now Night 1. It ends March 20th, 5 pm PDT.

Please send me any night actions by then. If all night actions are submitted and all players have messaged me for a fast night, the Night will end early.

[Seven]

Day 2 (Dawn) begins!

EGW has died during the Night. He was Town.

With 7 alive it takes 4 to eliminate.

Dawn ends Tuesday, March 21st, 11pm PDT.
Day 2 ends Friday, March 24th, 11 pm PDT.

Alive Players

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

bessie
somitomi
madge
Fred
Sabrar
Heury
Prince J

[bessie]

Court has been eliminated! He was Town.

bessie howling for Court.PNG (207.26 KiB) Viewed 1200 times

EGW has died during the Night. He was Town.

bessie howling for EGW.PNG (142.7 KiB) Viewed 1200 times

Woof
Court
EGW
Bessie
NEUTRAL LINE
Fred
Sabrar
Madge
Prince J
heuristically_alone
somitomi
Grr

[madge]

Damn bessie. Way to put us all on blast

I'll get the obvious-to-experienced-players part out the way. Today we're left with 7 players: 4 town, 2 mafia, 1 milleriser (max of 4 "millers"?: milleriser, cop, 2x targets)

Worst case scenario, tomorrow we're on 5 with 2 / 2 / 1 (up to 4 millers because godfather) - or 3/1/1 (up to 5 millers), so in the first case mafia would win if we miselim and in the second the milleriser has won outright (probably not in reality as we're likely to vote out millers and mafia is likely to kill them).

So yeah, breaking news: two miselims and two NKs would be bad for town. wow. very analysis, much mafia.

Prince J and Heury are leading the way as my mafia suspects, purely because I vote based on the reads of dead townies, and they were EGW's top picks as of his last read (after that he picked me and Court, in the spirit of full disclosure).

[Prince J]

I am a bit flummoxed in the sense of there was a rapid shift in being a lot of people's town-reads to then becoming low-key everyone's scum-readish which is a bit of a *head-tilt*.

Especially because it comes from the sense of people saying I am not giving much in terms of reads/thoughts when I was the one who originated the push on Court, which albeit was incorrect, still was a stronger standpoint while also conversing with others regarding said reads.

In addition to that, no one has really like chatted-chatted with me in terms of asking my reads until prior to when I wasn't here/now I'm aroundish.

I'll get to a reads list in a bit, but yeah, I'm gonna start *bonk*'ing some things in a minute.

[bessie]

Especially because it comes from the sense of people saying I am not giving much in terms of reads/thoughts when I was the one who originated the push on Court, which albeit was incorrect, still was a stronger standpoint while also conversing with others regarding said reads.

Please refer to my posts here and here . It is my position that I have not yet seen strong opinions from you. Interestingly, the reason you gave for voting for Court was for having weak reads and no strong standpoints.

I am looking forward to your complete detailed reads list.

[Sabrar]

I'm not a fan of any part of how that hammer came to be, starting with Court's decision not to fight back and ending with somitomi supposedly not checking votals. You are gonna tell us that you took your time to type out how pissed you are at bessie, made sure to give an ordered list, made sure to include some unfinished work but still decided not to care about the votals?

[madge]

I agree that it's scummy especially because we were all aware it was near hammer, but what does scum get out of it? Court was almost certainly going to be voted out.

Like, scum does scummy stuff, but they don't do scummy stuff for no reason. Why would scum!somi hasten a so-far unanimous voteoff by, what, 4 hours? It invites attention and ire and has no clear upside.

If it was to make sure a wagon never moved onto J then I'd rather vote J than somi: if J flips scum then somi becomes much more suspicious, obviously.

The only reason I can see for scum!somi to hasten the hammer would be to spill wine (Fred: it's short for wine in front of me, which is explained here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM ), and it does that.

So yeah, while I obviously hate someone hammering before we're ready, I don't think it means somi is scummy. I can't fathom a motivation that makes sense as scum in this instance.

[heuristically_alone]

I am guessing that somitomi will come online soon, apologize for being absent today, explain how he would vote for Court but he’s not going to vote because it would cut off six valuable hours of discussion, and that he is going to sleep and won’t be up before deadline.

somitomi if you see this please leave an ordered list.

Why aren't you complaining about the hammer yet? Especially since apparently you were waiting for somi to post before you gave final day thoughts.

Woof
Court
EGW
Bessie
NEUTRAL LINE
Fred
Sabrar
Madge
Prince J
heuristically_alone
somitomi
Grr

Where does you town lean end and where does your scum lean begin? Is it solely due to the hammer that somi dropped 4 spaces to the bottom of your list?

[somitomi]

I'm not a fan of any part of how that hammer came to be, starting with Court's decision not to fight back and ending with somitomi supposedly not checking votals. You are gonna tell us that you took your time to type out how pissed you are at bessie, made sure to give an ordered list, made sure to include some unfinished work but still decided not to care about the votals?

How long does it take you to type a three sentence rant or include stuff already in the post window? I'll admit, this is far from my best work and the only explanation I have for any of it is frustration because nothing I read while catching up managed to stick in my mind and coalesce into a read. This isn't entirely unusual for D1, bessie calling me out on it was just the last straw.

More importantly though, I have a result that's worth prossibly getting killed: Heury is guilty, which means a 50% chance of him being the hitman if I'm not mistaken.
Vote: Heury

I'll get the obvious-to-experienced-players part out the way. Today we're left with 7 players: 4 town, 2 mafia, 1 milleriser (max of 4 "millers"?: milleriser, cop, 2x targets)

The milleriser doesn't give a guilty result to the cop, which is both a blessing and a curse.

[somitomi]

EBWOP: Ninja'd b Heury

and on second thought, it might be only a curse. Drat