Millerizer Mafia - Game Over

[EGW]

Fred's Town or milleriser, obviously. Egw and Bessie seem townie.

Can you elaborate on these reads? Especially interested on your read on Bessie at that point.

[Sabrar]

Generally I like Prince J's entrance, this train-of-thought style is harder to reproduce as scum though not impossible.

i suppose in that case it would depend on whether the milleriser knows who to make into a miller to finish the job, which they won't necessarily if the cop is always a "free" miller for their team and assigned randomly

The Millerizer role seems outrageously overpowered to me...

I'm grouping these two because both show a fundamental misunderstanding of the Millerizer role (although in different ways). I would say that it's highly unlikely that this is posturing from Madge and almost impossible to be posturing from Freddino. For now I think we can safely rule them out from being Millerizer.

sidenote: I am very happy that Freddino has some prior knowledge of the Mafia game-type.

Hello sir. Could you elaborate on the extent of your interactions with EGW prior to this game starting?

I have clashed with him when I was scum and he was Town. I have clashed with him when the situation was reversed. He Vig-ged me when we were both Town because we both thought the other was scum. I don't think we have ever been scum together.

You do raise a good point about the milleriser being able to identify the godfather: someone who leads the wagon onto the godfather all of a sudden will be suspicious.

Hey Madge, this was exactly one of the points I did not want to discuss for now because the Millerizer is now aware of this as well.

Slightly meta, but memory serves town sabrar giving others the opportunity to respond to their question before dropping his own insight.

But Madge already answered it, George just didn't understand.

Why do you think your placement on that list indicates I am Grr reading you? There’s no neutral line indicated on that list.

I don't think anybody took your list in the way you intended, so maybe the problem is not with them??

@Sabrar, what do you think of my setup spec? Do you agree?

I think you could very well be on the right track which is hardly surprising knowing your record.

I think Madge’s confirmation post was really quick. I’m not sure if that is relevant yet.

You should really stop doing this. Most recent time you have mistakenly scum-read me because of timing, I'm pretty sure there were other cases before that.

I was surprised Madge didn’t answer Freddino’s question when she had opportunity to do so.

If I squint really hard I can see this. Still, this is a post hoc explanation to a degree.

[EGW]

I have clashed with him when I was scum and he was Town. I have clashed with him when the situation was reversed. He Vig-ged me when we were both Town because we both thought the other was scum. I don't think we have ever been scum together.

Yes, and one time I did a wagon switch to you at the very last minute and was wrong and I realized I have a hard time reading you. However, this game I actually am null on you.

[EGW]

For now I think we can safely rule them out from being Millerizer.

I can agree to this.

Hey Madge, this was exactly one of the points I did not want to discuss for now because the Millerizer is now aware of this as well.

I actually don't like that coming from Madge. Which I will go into later. However, can you give me one scum read Sabrar? I'm interested in seeing where your head is at.

[Sabrar]

However, can you give me one scum read Sabrar? I'm interested in seeing where your head is at.

I don't have one yet. Let me quote myself from the same game I brought up earlir re bessie:

I try hard not to do quick scum-reads anymore.

[EGW]

Alright, that's fair then. Thanks.

[madge]

Fred's Town or milleriser, obviously. Egw and Bessie seem townie.

Can you elaborate on these reads? Especially interested on your read on Bessie at that point.

I explained why I didn't think Fred had a partner in my message to him.

Bessie is being normal bessie. I've just realised I don't have a scum game from her but I feel like scum!bessie would be more willing to listen to reason, if that makes sense?

EGW, your playstyle is somethign I always find townie because I've not been burned by you yet, to my memory.

Sorry for revealing the thing about the godfather, but Fred had already said it more or less and I don't feel right saying stuff like "miller strategy is obvious" or whatever when we have someone playing their first game. TSS got so intimidated and confused by his first mafia game that it ended up being his only mafia game. We have trouble finding people as it is so I am going to make a concerted effort to be clearer this game, even if it has slight impacts on our ability to win, I would rather lose and Fred enjoys the game than win with Fred being confused and disengaged.

[heuristically_alone]

We have trouble finding people as it is so I am going to make a concerted effort to be clearer this game, even if it has slight impacts on our ability to win, I would rather lose and Fred enjoys the game than win with Fred being confused and disengaged.

[bessie]

Woof.

sad news.PNG (14.39 KiB) Viewed 4402 times

Ok, if you’re scum, I will be very sad because I greatly enjoyed those doggo pictures. I will assume in good faith you would not tug at my heart strings with pictures of cute doggos and will hold paws. Do I have to share the toy though?

That’s ok brought my own toys.

Hoku with his toys.PNG (184.22 KiB) Viewed 4402 times

And you know that people (including me) are seeing your woof-grr list and deciding that if they're in the bottom half they're in the grr pile

i know you put great stock in your confirmation post reads but the reason it was so quick from me was it was during my lunch break and i was excited because i haven't played in like a year

you know you're gonna tunnel and it's going to distract EVERYONE, likely for DAYS as i'm not voting you off for being bessie, people aren't voting me off for being me, and mafia isn't going to want this sideshow to end. and on D3 we'll all be saying "well $NAME just sat back and let Bessie argue with everyone else about Madge's meta, not alignment indicative"

This makes no sense at all. Why would the bottom half be the Grr pile? Why would anything be the Grr pile if there is no neutral line? I remember in my first college physics class if your answer had no units, it was automatically wrong. I’ve argued with someone about this before; perhaps the neutral line is three from the bottom, perhaps it is higher or lower. You don’t know because you didn’t ask.

Where am I arguing about your meta? I am pondering your confirmation post and it has nothing to do with your meta. You are being interestingly overdefensive.


I appreciate the effort in Freddino’s post here and I think is a good newbie post. But please do not edit you posts, its not allowed. Multi post and make another post with the edit. Also, this will seem counterintuitive it’s really not beneficial to town to vote “no elimination”. A mis elimination is unfortunate but it provides information that will help in evaluating the other players.

Interesting. How are we clashing?

We aren't right now, but being on the very Grrr end of your list didn't bode well.

There is no neutral line on that list. What makes you think I Grr read anyone from it? Or, more interestingly, what makes you think I don’t?

Does the neutral line really matter though? Whoever is at the bottom is the most Grrr to you regardless of where they are on some hypothetical absolute scale of woofness. As said before I regarded the list as a joke and didn't put much stock into it as an indication of where your head is.

Everyone’s confirmation post was acceptable. Prince J was in the middle because he didn’t make one. You were at the bottom because yours was the least like mine. It’s an ordered list, and the point of an ordered list is that there’s an order.

No read is lame.

Correct. All content is important.
Do you have any updated reads?

I see what you're doing and still I must ask. Why does it 'surprise' you that people have interpreted your reads list as such?

It doesn’t surprise me that many are stuck in the mindset that reads must conform to the number of town/scum in the game. I town-read or scum-read based on content, not to fulfill a quota. And I’m always suspicious of reads that seem forced, like the reads are trying to conform to the setup.

Sabrar’s responses do surprise me though.

Why do you think your placement on that list indicates I am Grr reading you? There’s no neutral line indicated on that list.

I don't think anybody took your list in the way you intended, so maybe the problem is not with them??

Grr.PNG (77.77 KiB) Viewed 4402 times

I think Madge’s confirmation post was really quick. I’m not sure if that is relevant yet.

You should really stop doing this. Most recent time you have mistakenly scum-read me because of timing, I'm pretty sure there were other cases before that.

Ah. I don’t know where my mind was that game.

I was surprised Madge didn’t answer Freddino’s question when she had opportunity to do so.

If I squint really hard I can see this. Still, this is a post hoc explanation to a degree.

Is not.

Bessie is being normal bessie. I've just realised I don't have a scum game from her but I feel like scum!bessie would be more willing to listen to reason, if that makes sense?

No I’m stubborn as any alignment. Ask anyone. Except Sabrar. He thinks I am open-minded and accommodating.

[heuristically_alone]

I’m always suspicious of reads that seem forced, like the reads are trying to conform to the setup.

Love this.

Updated read on Bessie, very unlikely to be scum partners with sabrar.

Updated read on Prince J, I like the opening posts as they do seem to be honest scum hunting. Not likely to be scum partners with sabrar or Madge.

Updated read on heury, has made some great points and therefore definitely town.

[EGW]

Still waiting on Fred to answer my question. I'm also curious about your timezone and availability Fred, when you get to it.

[Seven]

Another clarification since I've been asked about it by a couple of people.

Millerizer is its own faction and does not work like a cultist (they don't recruit people to their team).
Millerizer itself is not a miller.
A miller is merely someone who appears as guilty to investigation but otherwise their alignment is unchanged.

[Prince J]

Gonna catch up in a bit, tho a tad not here coherently the best due to it being my fiance's birthday (Happy St. Patrick's Day~) however I'm off tomorrow so I'll be around to chat.

[EGW]

Happy Birthday to your fiance J. I will be free tomorrow to chat as well.

[Court]

Alright, lets see here. Quick notes from me, I’m pretty tired and can’t be asked to reread the game fully atm after a long day of work lol but I want to contribute anyway. I’m not really staunch on anything for the record…

Sabrar kinda sticks out to me this game. Early combativeness with EGW and huery, not really sure why he is contemplating Bessie’s set up speculation. I guess I’m not really seeing pro-town intent there. I have to assume sabrar is cognizant of this though and he has gotten some discussion going, so I have him as null for now. In general I would love to have a Town Sabrar with me in endgame (if I remember things correctly back from my brief visit to xkcd) so I’m adverse towards jumping to any conclusions.

Regarding freddino, I’m not a big fan of trying to read new forum mafia players because every so often you get a brainlet that knows they are new and plays the newbie card really hard, so I’m going to defer my opinion to someone here that hopefully knows Freddie and can vouch he is just plainly very new. In the event that he is just pretending to be very new and we give him a pass, we should definitely roast him alive afterwards for resorting to such underhanded tactics, but I will assume in good faith he would not do this

I don’t take issue with Huery. I don’t typical make use of his style of play (making brief observations of what people are doing as a focal point of their gameplay) but I don’t disagree with him on much really and he seems forthright/transparent.

EGW seems motivated to get discussion going and did a fairly good job of that early on. I don’t have a strong read either way but so long as he is helping move things along then I don’t have any quarrel with him

I don’t really get J’s read on Sabrar/Madge. Maybe they think Sabrar being anti-town at least some portion of the day is a town tell? Madge does come off as genuine for the most part so I can at least see that. Maybe there’s something I am missing here. That isn’t being said to supplement undermining Sabrar, I just don’t get it personally. Also, saying that Sabrar and Madge could also be “deep wolf” (scum I assume) seems non-committal? I didn’t really understand his point about posturing either. Aside from that, I have no strong opinion on J.

Regarding somitomi, I thought it was weird that somitomi went from assuming my opening post was a joke to seemingly pivoting to not assuming it was a joke anymore and deciding they didn’t know what it was in actuality. Was kind of bizarre from my point of view

Madge seemed genuine to me, not a hill I would die on but that’s how I feel about them

As far as bessie is concerned, we are unconditionally holding paws.

[Prince J]

Off the cuff, minor insight to headspace, I do not think I would go Bessie toDay, yet I do see valid equity in her possibly being mafia from her catch-up posts seeming holistically in the middle ground while very minor nudges tho no true committal points?

Idk hard one to explain, but I could see yet tho I'm not really convinced of it myself.

[Prince J]

Ninja'd by Court wall haha~

Okay reading that in the next bit.

[Prince J]

Happy Birthday to your fiance J. I will be free tomorrow to chat as well.

Ty fam <3

[EGW]

I've been surprised by Bessie this game and I find her two most recent posts town leaning for her firm push on Madge and for her asking Heury to update his reads.

[Freddino18]

The Millerizer role seems outrageously overpowered to me...

I'm grouping these two because both show a fundamental misunderstanding of the Millerizer role (although in different ways). I would say that it's highly unlikely that this is posturing from Madge and almost impossible to be posturing from Freddino. For now I think we can safely rule them out from being Millerizer.

sidenote: I am very happy that Freddino has some prior knowledge of the Mafia game-type.

You are correct that this was a horrible misunderstanding, but I definitely understand it now.

Still waiting on Fred to answer my question. I'm also curious about your timezone and availability Fred, when you get to it.

Regarding timezone and availability, I live in MST and generally am not available until I get home from work at about 10:30 pm. What question?

Regarding freddino, I’m not a big fan of trying to read new forum mafia players because every so often you get a brainlet that knows they are new and plays the newbie card really hard, so I’m going to defer my opinion to someone here that hopefully knows Freddie and can vouch he is just plainly very new. In the event that he is just pretending to be very new and we give him a pass, we should definitely roast him alive afterwards for resorting to such underhanded tactics, but I will assume in good faith he would not do this

This made me laugh pretty hard. BTW Fred works just fine (same to you, Sabrar).

Honestly I'm not sure what I should be reading here. Regarding Madge's point of having to guess when and if the cop is eliminated, does the Millerizer always know who is in their faction, even in the event of a Miller cop dying, or do they only have their own actions to go on? This still seems to be a non-moot point until the cop is identified, and becomes an issue again any time the cop changes.

[EGW]

Fred, this question.

[Freddino18]

Were you roleplaying as joker in your two beginning posts? Also, since this is your first game, I want you to give us 3 names that you find suspicious of being mafia, and give reasons why. Finally, why are you voting no elimination?

No, not sure, don't want to say but I have hinted why.

[EGW]

Madge stinky, take a shower.

Can you elaborate on this?

[Freddino18]

Madge stinky, take a shower.

Can you elaborate on this?

She's been hanging out with Flicky.

[EGW]

That seems to be an odd reason for you to mention that in a sentence where you are giving your thoughts on players relating to the game.