Animal Kingdom Mafia (Game Over)

[phillip1882]

I'm considering following makhaira vote for future votes. i'll go over the whole thread, and try to get a feel for how he/she stands.

[Makhaira]

pretty sure these posts alone give us greater insight into each of these players than the rest of what has happened this phase in its entirety lmao

However, despite having said all that , Im nervous about moving off boom and coming to regret it. Basically head says mak gut says boom. As this is my last post before deadline I'm happy with either boom or mak. So I'm going to vote mak as that leaves options for those around at deadline.

vote Makhira

huh.

Oh, please do if you can find the time. I actually don't see that many possible mates for Boomfrog. Also, I find Boom's case fairly convincing as well, but this feels like a surprisingly fast pivot.

Vote: Wam

ok like boomfrog effortposting last minute as the only slot with votes on him is predictable but wam pivoting off boom to me? and then somi calling him on it? and boom having the same ??????? reaction as me to that vote given the way boom goes after both me and wam and even goes into some mate theory pairing us???

Unvote

[Makhaira]

I'm considering following makhaira vote for future votes. i'll go over the whole thread, and try to get a feel for how he/she stands.

..........

can you please atleast tell us why? like how do you not have a feel for "how I stand" right now? I've given two read lists at this point

this is either a case of really struggling to understand how this game is played, making no effort to read the thread, or active trolling. could actually be worth a policy lynch at this point because people are surprising me right now and I need to rethink things

we also have a no elim to burn, do we want to consider doing that to buy us some time since today was basically a nothing day phase?

[Makhaira]

Do I look worried about Sabrar?

do i look like i care.png

this is ominous with a dead town!sabrar

If your content doesn’t improve we cant let you survive to Day 3 because you will be a liability at LYLO/MYLO. So if you are town, you will start posting some content NOW so we don’t need to waste Day 2, where you will likely be policy eliminated.

messie do yall stand by this?

[Makhaira]

Votecount 1.3

messie (3): heury, phillip, Wam
Sabrar (1): BoomFrog
heury (3): Eido, Makhaira, Mark

Not voting: messie, Sabrar, somitomi

End of Day is in Just under 1 day

I think this is a telling an pivotal vote count

At this stage voting Heury seems like a forced choice for me, anyway, as at the moment we’re tied with 3 votes apiece.

Vote: Heury

which makes this vote extra bad

[Makhaira]

boomfrog

- boomfrog made only a token effort to engage and solve until yesterday and there is no indication that the prior content felt relevant to him.
- as explained previously his thought process by which he tried to determine mine is flawed on many levels. He neglected to explain himself further, not responding to my latest inquiries at all.
- he scum-reads Eido just because Eido did not comment on one particular aspect of the game. This seems very excessive, especially coming from boomfrog who for example did not comment at all on how people find heury scummy because of the mistake. Since heury had 4 votes already at the time of boomfrog's read-list I recon that was also an important topic that would have merited some kind of comment from him.
- his 'advice' to somitomi (at the end of his readlist) feels off. boomfrog believes he can read the room but as of that point somitomi was very far from being an elim today considering the two major trains already. This is just a minor point though as it's just a vibe I'm getting from that comment.

this post makes boom's effort posting feel so contrived and self pres tbh

@boomfrog: does that appeal to me means that I have now shown you my townieness?

Yes, I'm leaning that way. Your responses to the second half of my provocation have been the right amount of considered. I certainly don't want to elim you D1.

and this also feels really self pres ugh

[Makhaira]

Votecount 1.4

messie (3): heury, phillip, Wam
Eido (1): BoomFrog
heury (4): Eido, Makhaira, Mark, messie (L-2)
BoomFrog (1): Sabrar

Not voting: somitomi

End of Day is in 14 hours

wam follows this vote count with:

Ok probably last post since deadline. I'm not sure how much I'm buying booms gambit but I was reading messie as scummier already. I dont think much has changed for me since my reads list so I'm leaving my vote where it is.

somewhat good look for Wam here with town!heury flip. no way he does this if he's mate with messie so I think this rules out that pairing

@Sabrar: Just a quick heads up to say I briefly flicked through the Secret Santa game and can see what you are saying now. Overall it looks like Heury is quite clumsy. It's possible Town!Heury felt the pain from this game and makes it an incentive to correct himself next time he slips up.

Unvote
Vote: Boom

@Wam @Mark @Messie Join this?

big late in phase move from Eido here to return the wagons to a tie. I think this looks incredibly good for Eido, likely town given the timing

[Makhaira]

For the record, I was two minds about tactical voting but that's what's happening today. With like an hour and a bit until deadline there's not much chance of getting the wagon moved to Somi, who had a very scummy reads list.

My defensive vote remains on Heury as while neither Heury nor Boom is a scumpick of mine, Heury's participation sometimes drops off which will be harder to read at endgame than Boom.

this post just gives me feel of conjuring up lame excuses for self pres, but atleast they admit its self pres? I just feel like messie has been only focused on self pres and only responding to other players who directly interact with them which is consistent with a defensive coasty scum approach

[Makhaira]

I feel like it was my responsibility to present a better case on boomfrog. oh well, there is always next game.

this also intensely spooky

boom and messie are so openly buddy buddy at EoD1 its like they are asking us to pair them

im kind of at a point right now where it has to be like either as simple as boom/messie or im like completely wrong and am getting played by someone like wam or mark. I really feel like eido is town and somi feels like a lost townie barely paying attention but like having genuine reactions

[Makhaira]

Vote Count 2.5

BoomFrog (3): Makhaira, Eido, phillip (L-2)
Wam (1): BoomFrog
Makhaira (1): Wam

Not voting: Mark_Cangila, messie, somitomi

Deadline in 7.5 hours

with somi going to Wam and me coming off boom, I think we have

BoomFrog (2): Eido, phillip
Wam (2): BoomFrog, somitomi
Makhaira (1): Wam

Not voting: Mark_Cangila, messie, somitomi, Makhaira

which leaves boom as still prumptive as he had the lead previously?

is anyone else going to be here around deadline? I think we only have 4.5 hours

[Makhaira]

Makhaira analysis

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

What are you hoping to get out of this question?

I recommend no one answer this question, btw.

people are asking each other questions in the early game about their assumptions re: # of scum in the game and you don't think their subjective positions re: the mountainousness of this game are relevant? are you trying to help someone not scumslip?

The logic here doesn't make sense. If I'm scum then I have already detected his 'trap' and I would have warned my scum buddy in scum chat. I wouldn't need to post in the main thread to 'help someone not scumslip'.

why do you like to pretend that there isn't signaling value to "protective" callouts like that? and maybe your buddy isn't very experienced or disciplined and might read and react to the thread before checking private messages? you made a lot of assumptions about how the bait would play out that are unfalsifiable now because or your intervention and you should be well aware of that

Non-committal reads list since all the reads are unjustified. Not ordering the list gives a lot of flexibility to say one "neutral" was lower then another. "scum lean" on heury despite not talking about heury in any way so far.

I was like the first person to give a full read list, weird to nitpick and call it "non-committal" (please show me a contemporary D1 list that was "acceptably committal" by your standards) and complain because it's not ordered? is that an expectation in this forum's meta or something? how can anyone be expected to have reads with sufficient granularity to warrant meaningful ordering early D1?

...
Heury's snarky tone is pinging me a little, in my recollection town-heury is usually more easy-going.
...

...
my ping on heury was for the same reason and seeing someone who seem to have meta with heury say its out of step validates that. is there anyone else in here with experience with heury that can confirm/deny what somi is saying here?
...
boomfrog undermining my TMI bait and now 180ing and saying he town reads me for it feels gross, like he's cutting bait and running

fine with boom or heury going at this point. wouldnt be upset to lose phillip is becoming deader and deader weight by the day but I don't think we learn much from that flip

This is the first time he explains his vote on Heury. Apparently it's not for the "quick backtracked read" thing but because Heury is too snarky? That's a weird read for someone who doesn't know Heury's personality at all.

his response ping snarky, what do you want me to say? I don't know him but someone else who does seems to agree with me that it was snarky so its bizarre that you call it "weird" that I had this reaction when someone who has the meta knowledge you want agrees. and that was not my only reason, I dont know why you're making it seem like I was switching reasons to think heury was scummy when I clearly was stating multiple

will try to get to the rest of the case later but like this is just to show that you're guilty of the same mischaracterizations your accusing me of

[Seven]

Vote Count 2.6

BoomFrog (2): Eido, phillip
Wam (2): BoomFrog, somitomi
Makhaira (1): Wam

Not voting: Mark_Cangila, messie, Makhaira

[messie]

Woof. Woof woof woof. Woof woof. Woof? Woof!

Advising phillip only takes a few minutes. Game solving takes a computer and a few hours. Working on it now though. Also, we can't afford to eliminate phillip if he is town, so advising him about LYLO tactics is very worthwhile.

Yes, I meant continue advise Philip when appropriate. This is a newbie game, and we’re supposed to be helping him learn how to play. But also treat every day as if it is your last and bark everything out before deadline.

However, I don't think a wam+somi team comes up with that plan, they are both relatively passive players.

Disagree about Wam. He won Stellaris Mafia almost single handedly when he claimed a fake cop result and bussed his two mafia partners.

24 hours apart a 24 hours where boom doesn't mention somi at all. In those 24 hours somi posted twice the 2nd being a reads list.

viewtopic.php?p=19479#p19479

There was no reference to the reads list no explanation beyond lack of effort.

Wam, what do you think of my comments on somitomi’s read list (that you linked) here and here ?

Can you link to the content where BoomFrog says (or alludes to) this? Because I don’t see it.

It comes from Boom's explanation here: viewtopic.php?p=19445#p19445

You are so misreading that post. Like, just the first two sentences contradict your entire self-claimed issue with boom’s content.

BoomFrogs post that you linked:

I got burned badly last game by Osie and decided my D1 mission was to get a read on the high effort players. If the low effort players contain the scum then I trust the surviving high effort players to suss them out on later days.

Your issue with BoomFrog:

Aside from the Night kill trail, my issue with Boom is that he was aware low effort players likelier contain scum, but spent most of his time D1 looking to undermine high effort posters instead.

BoomFrog never said that “low effort” players likelier contain scum, and he explained his reasons for concentrating on “high effort” players. In the last game BoomFrog mistakenly equated effort with towniness, and scum completely dominated the thread with an astonishingly high volume of content (and this is a very low volume forum).

By the way, completely disagree with using the terms “low effort” and “high effort”. What is low volume on another forum would probably be considered high volume here; and anyway volume does not necessarily equal effort and definitely does not automatically equal towniness.

Oh, please do if you can find the time. I actually don't see that many possible mates for Boomfrog. Also, I find Boom's case fairly convincing as well, but this feels like a surprisingly fast pivot.

Vote: Wam

that was fast.PNG (163.65 KiB) Viewed 1940 times

You’re, like, voting for Wam because of a fast pivot? This was the last time you even mentioned him:

friendly (the only note in my head is that they've done nothing suspicious or unusual)
Eido
Wam
Sabrar
Mark_Cangila

Back in a bit. I hear my people on the phone ordering a pizza. They forgot to ask me what I wanted, so I need to go bark out my order!

[messie]

Sorry this was supposed to be in my last post. My little puppy mind goes crazy when I hear “pizza”!

How are you planning to solve Phillip this game btw?

I don’t need to solve Philip. If I solve enough other people, Philip will eventually sort himself. All I need to solve is the question of his continued participation in this game. Why did you ask me this question?

Oh boy is that the doorbell I’m sooooo excited!!!

[messie]

pretty sure these posts alone give us greater insight into each of these players than the rest of what has happened this phase in its entirety lmao

I’m sure the answer is there if one is enlightened enough to see it.

we also have a no elim to burn, do we want to consider doing that to buy us some time since today was basically a nothing day phase?

Do you not think it is better to save it until MYLO?

Do I look worried about Sabrar?

do i look like i care.png

this is ominous with a dead town!sabrar

Both of my halves have a history of trolling Sabrar; we’ve been playing together a long time, since we were puppies.

messie and sabrar.PNG (161.6 KiB) Viewed 1930 times

If your content doesn’t improve we cant let you survive to Day 3 because you will be a liability at LYLO/MYLO. So if you are town, you will start posting some content NOW so we don’t need to waste Day 2, where you will likely be policy eliminated.

messie do yall stand by this?

Yes I am willing to consider it and if this wasn’t a newbie game I would have voted him by now. Alas, I keep hoping he will show some improvement.

At this stage voting Heury seems like a forced choice for me, anyway, as at the moment we’re tied with 3 votes apiece.
Vote: Heury

which makes this vote extra bad

I agree. And I already said as much here:

it troubles me to see messie voting defensively as half of them is very much against the idea.

Yeah and you should know better. Half my brain totally does it whenever necessary.

this post just gives me feel of conjuring up lame excuses for self pres, but atleast they admit its self pres? I just feel like messie has been only focused on self pres and only responding to other players who directly interact with them which is consistent with a defensive coasty scum approach

It was totally self pres. An already explained here, in a comment that was a reply to something you said:

Re self preservation. Half of me is not interested in self preservation at all; and is also a very reactive player. The other half is known to self pres vote, and is a more proactive player. These two halves have argued about this in past games. Take from that what you will.

And half of me is a totally reactive player.


I need to go out for about an hour but let me try to get a list up first. I will be here at deadline.

[messie]

This is where my little puppy brain is at. No explanations now because I’m in a hurry but I want to get this out there because its 3 hours until deadline.

Woof
Heury
Sabrar
messie
Mark_Cangila
BoomFrog
Makhaira
Eido
philip
Wam
somitomi
Grr

My people need to drive someone home and I get to go for a ride in the car! I will think about the remainder of today’s content and try to comment more when I get back.

[boomfrog]

Vote Count 2.5

BoomFrog (3): Makhaira, Eido, phillip (L-2)
Wam (1): BoomFrog
Makhaira (1): Wam

Not voting: Mark_Cangila, messie, somitomi

Deadline in 7.5 hours

with somi going to Wam and me coming off boom, I think we have

BoomFrog (2): Eido, phillip
Wam (2): BoomFrog, somitomi
Makhaira (1): Wam

Not voting: Mark_Cangila, messie, somitomi, Makhaira

which leaves boom as still prumptive as he had the lead previously?

is anyone else going to be here around deadline? I think we only have 4.5 hours

Why do you need to know who will be on later when you have the power to decide now? Wagons are tied.

[boomfrog]

I'm considering following makhaira vote for future votes. i'll go over the whole thread, and try to get a feel for how he/she stands.

What is it about Makhaira that makes you trust them?

[Makhaira]

Why do you need to know who will be on later when you have the power to decide now? Wagons are tied.

because im town and care what the other slots think and would use their positions to help sort like what kind of question is this???????

[Makhaira]

messie why not boom?

[boomfrog]

...
my ping on heury was for the same reason and seeing someone who seem to have meta with heury say its out of step validates that. is there anyone else in here with experience with heury that can confirm/deny what somi is saying here?
...
boomfrog undermining my TMI bait and now 180ing and saying he town reads me for it feels gross, like he's cutting bait and running

fine with boom or heury going at this point. wouldnt be upset to lose phillip is becoming deader and deader weight by the day but I don't think we learn much from that flip

This is the first time he explains his vote on Heury. Apparently it's not for the "quick backtracked read" thing but because Heury is too snarky? That's a weird read for someone who doesn't know Heury's personality at all.

his response ping snarky, what do you want me to say? I don't know him but someone else who does seems to agree with me that it was snarky so its bizarre that you call it "weird" that I had this reaction when someone who has the meta knowledge you want agrees. and that was not my only reason, I dont know why you're making it seem like I was switching reasons to think heury was scummy when I clearly was stating multiple

You never started another reason. And you said "my ping". That's singular. You are back tracking. Your D1 reasoning is out of order. You say your reason to vote was valid because Somi confirmed that Heury was too snarky. But you voted before Somi confirmed that. And you never thought to ask "is Heury normally this snarky?". For all you knew when you voted he was always snarky in every game.

[boomfrog]

messie why not boom?

How can you claim to have been paying attention to the thread and ask this question!?

Vote Makhaira

[Mark_Cangila]

I've had a really crazy day today - I'm sorry for not getting a reads list, I'll put it up first thing D3 based on D1 and D2. In the meantime, I don't think anything I've seen from Boom is a great explanation for the weirdness on the Messie read, and it just sits wrong in my stomach.
Vote: Boomfrog

I'll post more in a sec - just wanna get this post out before day end.

[Mark_Cangila]

Has deadlne not already happened? I saw zero hours on the link? Because messie said 3 hours to deadline a bit ago.

[Mark_Cangila]

Oh I looked at the D1 link. Well, let me finish off my post before I head to bed.