Secret Santa Game Thread

[boomfrog]

Oh jeez less than 24 hours left. Bessie actually wasted the entire day phase, damn.

Okay. Starting work on a teamsolve PoE based on Day 1 interactions.

You made your own choices on how you spent your game day.

Please humor me and include a Bessie is town scenario if you are looking at teams.

[osieorb18]

Well she's not going to be eliminated toDay, so who's your second pick? Before team analysis, who's your second pick right now?

wHy NoT?

Anyways, team analysis is almost done. Prior to team analysis it would be Moody. Still is (Moody+Bessie team is comfortably more likely than any other), but Madge has shifted up there for me too. That said, once I'm done with interaction analysis of WMU's posts and Heury's new posts, I'll have a team PoE, and then I can combine it with my overall.

I'm probably stepping away for a bit after that until a few hours before deadline barring not having enough to do IRL (which is unlikely to be the case).

[osieorb18]

Oh jeez less than 24 hours left. Bessie actually wasted the entire day phase, damn.

Okay. Starting work on a teamsolve PoE based on Day 1 interactions.

You made your own choices on how you spent your game day.

Please humor me and include a Bessie is town scenario if you are looking at teams.

Oh, my team analysis includes every possible team at the start, however likely.

I'm down to 15 teams pre-WMU ISO, and I expect to rule out at least a couple between WMU and Heury's ISOs.

[boomfrog]

Because if I have to I'll defend her, but that sounds exhausting. And btw, I assure you that regardless of alignment her goal has never been to purposely cause someone an unenjoyable game.

I respect the effort in the team analysis, but I already know you're going to vote Moody at the end.

[heuristically_alone]

The fact that boomfrog is town and believes bessie is town is enough for me to hold off on voting bessie today. Also not willing to vote osie, moody, or the worst today.

[bessie]

I’M HEREEEEEEEE!!!!

I'm fairly confident that this is a tactic Osie would find distasteful. He's a fairly principled player and that is an unfun way to win. Note how he criticized you for what he thought was you ruining a "casual game". He wouldn't use that kind of tactic. Vicatrian was much more of a "anything not against the rules is fair play" and "victory at any cost" type of player.

Might I remind you that you misread Vicarin in that game and were against his elimination until he finally claimed scum?

@Bessie: vote Moody? I know he's your second choice scum pick.

Moody’s not my second pick, the Worst is. WakeMeUp requested my reads on every player so I made a Woof-Grr list two nights ago.


@the Worst, thank you for the town-scum list. I asked you another question in the same post and I would be interested in your answer:

I’m not sure why you think mafia should display signs of guilt, and what that would be. Can you give me an example?

Pre post edit: You did touch on this in regards to Osie in this post , but I still would be interested in your answer to my question.

Let me post the link to that game, I know I received a request for this
https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/ ... ry.141207/

That was me, thank you.

Bessie what is the difference for you between what Madge posted ("i am town this time, promise" - with a reversed smiley) and what Osie said "why the hell would I put it in the thread as a wolf?"
They are both scumtells and you only go after Osie.

I don’t believe in claiming Day 1, and I don’t believe in claiming town, even though I know a lot of people do it. I feel that if someone keeps reminding the thread that they’re town (or the opposite, that they’re not scum) then perhaps the reason is because they’re not town. I made my comments to note my disapproval. Madge saw my comment and moved on and I have noted it; Osie had an extreme reaction over my comment, and he’s the one that went after me. I know you’re friends with Osie and don’t know me, but I think you really should try to see our conflict from a neutral point-of-view. Your question is phrased in a way that shows you are looking at it from Osie’s point of view.

vote bessie

just because the worst has a mini-wagon and id on't want to add to RVS

FWIW bessie's attitude to me is a null-tell. i think overall townie lean.

This post pings me hard. Voting a town lean is a nonsense

This vote was during RVS.

I struggle to believe that town!Bessie gives negative points for town claiming early d1.

@heury, you need to play mafia more often! I have always been against town claiming, and had a lengthy argument with LaserGuy about it in a recent game. I don’t have time to go through old games right now, but you don’t need to take my word for it, you can ask Madge, BoomFrog, or Moody, whomever you trust, to confirm or deny this.

Her posting outside of bessie/osie is also really deeply superficial? Like she's commenting on a lot of stuff and asking a lot of questions but I'm resding over it and going "mm ok" and then resuming. When I answer the questions shes directed at me, i dont feel like she's interested in my answers.

Oh but I am interested in your answers. And I’m anxiously awaiting your answer to the question I asked previously.

I usually open with my RL schedule in my opening post; I didn’t think I needed to here because everyone in this game has played with me before, but I shouldn’t have expected you to remember. I have very little time on weeknights and am limited to about an hour of play time. I have lots of time on weekends so that’s when I do the bulk of my posting. This game started on the weekend, which is why my content level dropped in later days.

Because if I have to I'll defend her, but that sounds exhausting. And btw, I assure you that regardless of alignment her goal has never been to purposely cause someone an unenjoyable game.

I respect the effort in the team analysis, but I already know you're going to vote Moody at the end.

Don’t worry about defending me. I don’t mind being eliminated today, because it means tomorrow you will all be able to see Day 1 for what it is. I’ll even self vote if you ask me to.

Osie’s going to vote for me anyway. He said in this post he was going to leave his vote on me for the rest of the game.


Re schedules, I don’t play at work, because I’m working. I can check the thread briefly about 4-5 hours before deadline but I will not have time to answer any lengthy questions, so if anyone wants to ask me something, please do so within the next 4 hours.

[bessie]

I feel this deserves its own post.

I've also openly stepped away from talking to bessie. It feels like she's wasted my time throughout Day 1 while trying to ensure that I don't enjoy the game enough or have enough focus to really form reads (not that it's stopped me from doing so; used to that. It's a sizable part of why I ignore naked FoS/votes on me).

I did not join this game, nor I have been playing this game, with the overriding objective of making you unhappy, and you are in the wrong for saying this in thread. If you’re unhappy, it’s not my fault.

[the worst]

What's the vc at? I could try and tally it but I'm working.

@heury i think you should vote someone.

[bessie]

I think this is correct.

Unofficial Votals
Madge - 1 - xX_wakemeup1337_Xx
Osieorb18 - 2 - bessie, moody7277
Bessie - 2 - Osieorb18, the worst
Moody7277 - 1 - boomfrog
No Elim - 1 - the snide sniper
The Snide Sniper – 1 - heuristically_alone

With 9 alive it takes 5 for an elimination.

Not voting – No one

[heuristically_alone]

@heury, you need to play mafia more often! I have always been against town claiming, and had a lengthy argument with LaserGuy about it in a recent game. I don’t have time to go through old games right now, but you don’t need to take my word for it, you can ask Madge, BoomFrog, or Moody, whomever you trust, to confirm or deny this.

As I recall, you've always been against it but was never alignment indicative for you. I could be misremembering, but definetely striked me as odd to give an immediate -1 for it.

And yes I need to play more! Now that I'm not working 60 hour weeks anymore I should have more time to dedicate myself to meaningless meaningful tasks.

[madge]

@heuri that wordle better not be a breadcrumb

i'm doing another +-= post that HOPEFULLY WON"T GET FORGOTTEN TO POST UGHHHH

i do not justify or defend these scores, pitiful as they are, as i assign them very arbitrarily as i read through

heuri = +
osie = -
the worst = -+
wmu ++
boomfrog =

i'm still sheeping boomfrog, i agree that osie is not a lim for today, and i think my negative points to osie is purely style (this is what i said in my Lost Post tm)

vote moody

[boomfrog]

I'm fairly confident that this is a tactic Osie would find distasteful. He's a fairly principled player and that is an unfun way to win. Note how he criticized you for what he thought was you ruining a "casual game". He wouldn't use that kind of tactic. Vicatrian was much more of a "anything not against the rules is fair play" and "victory at any cost" type of player.

Might I remind you that you misread Vicarin in that game and were against his elimination until he finally claimed scum?

Valid, and I could be wrong, as is always possible, but odds are against it in this case. But I'll think about it.

@Bessie: vote Moody? I know he's your second choice scum pick.

Moody’s not my second pick, the Worst is. WakeMeUp requested my reads on every player so I made a Woof-Grr list two nights ago.

And the order has remained the same for two days? Moody posted a strong town read of you. Normally you bite people's head off for an unsubstantiated default "Bessie is town" stance. Why have you not even brought it up?

Btw, @Moody you've completely neglected to answer my question about why you have a strong town read on Bessie.

[osieorb18]

This isn't a definite method, but just looks at likelihood of some teams compared to others based on interaction. I tend to be eager to remove teams because it'll point towards a solve, though I'll have hesitation at times, particularly with scummier or more skilled players.

Starting Possibilities:

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Moody+bessie
Moody+Heury
Moody+Boomfrog
Moody+Madge
Moody+Sniper
Moody+Worst
Moody+WMU
Bessie+Heury
Bessie+Boomfrog
Bessie+Madge
Bessie+Sniper
Bessie+Worst
Bessie+WMU
Heury+Boomfrog
Heury+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+Worst
Heury+WMU
Boomfrog+Madge
Boomfrog+Sniper
Boomfrog+Worst
Boomfrog+WMU
Madge+Sniper
Madge+Worst
Madge+WMU
Sniper+Worst
Sniper+WMU
Worst+WMU

To start off, Moody.

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• Moody RVS votes for the worst. Doesn't really sway the needle.
• Later the same day, gives the worst "townie points" for a "creepy wagon formation"... This feels forced, but still not clear if aligned or unaligned.
• Moody's response to the worst's question doesn't feel super aligned, but isn't hard unaligned. Ever so slight favour towards unaligned.
• Moody comments on WMU and then townreads bessie for their tunnel on me, without really giving reasoning. Comment on Boomfrog leans towards unaligned. Man, this readlist is really mostly commentary. I think Moody as scum TMI's Sniper as town in their comment on me; probably unaligned. Read on the worst doesn't feel very organic, but it doesn't really feel like buddy handling. Where are these numbers coming from? If they're rankings, they seem to come out of nowhere, and having bessie as their top town is OMGWTFBBQ. I think this readlist doesn't really unalign from anyone on a strong level other than Sniper. Moody+Sniper unaligned.
• Odd defense of bessie without much else. Still not ruling out teams.
• Leapfrogs off of Boomfrog to provide self with an excuse for ignoring any posts from bessie or osie. Moody+Boomfrog unaligned. WMU-worst commentary is whatever. It doesn't feel like a bus, so I'm still leaning a soft unalignment on Moody+worst. Sniper-Heury commentary is easy pickings. This might as well be shade.
• Responds to bessie "assist me" post with sorta copying bessie's point. Not sure that this would be in the thread, but I dislike how moody mostly just follows bessie's lead here. Doesn't really feel organic.
• Bessie-Boomfrog definite towncore, pockety/buddying towards Madge, and random townlean on WMU... I guess as a follow-up to the townlean from WMU's push on the worst. Hmmm. The way that he talks to Madge could be a scumslip for the pair of them. Do not like.
• Goes for an easy comment on Sniper. Yeah, definitely unaligned there.
• Disagrees with worst while also using their post as an example. I could potentially see the worst setting this up, but with their earlier soft unalign, I'm still leaning a soft unalign here.

I think the way moody talks about WMU is slightly more likely towards unaligned as well.

Not really any discussion of Heury outside of complaining about them, which slightly increases team likelihood.

Moody ISO leaves:

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Moody+bessie (++)

Moody+Heury (+)

Moody+Madge
Bessie+Heury
Bessie+Boomfrog
Bessie+Madge
Bessie+Sniper
Bessie+Worst
Bessie+WMU
Heury+Boomfrog
Heury+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+Worst
Heury+WMU
Boomfrog+Madge
Boomfrog+Sniper
Boomfrog+Worst
Boomfrog+WMU
Madge+Sniper
Madge+Worst
Madge+WMU
Sniper+Worst
Sniper+WMU
Worst+WMU


Moody+Worst (-)
Moody+WMU (-)

Next, we look at bessie's ISO. I'm going to try to go through this quickly for the sake of my mental health.

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• The bessie push on Madge is so out of left field and strong enough that it seems less likely to come from a position of them being aligned. I could also totally see this being a situation where scum!bessie sets up a post where she makes two medium-to-soft negative statements about two town players so she could leap on the first one whose follow-through she felt comfortable attacking. Madge's response was more "Hey, why are you going for this kinda shady attack on me?" which is harder for bessie to follow up on than my ignoring of bessie's post.
• Bessie's follow-up, going hard on the defensive in response to my mild question, suggests a scumlean on Madge that again, doesn't feel like buddying. Random answer to WMU is a slight unalignment, but WMU is at least experienced enough to coach bessie into faking that, whether or not bessie is good enough.
• Odd greeting to BoomFrog. Either distancing or a pocket attempt. Push on madge carries over into this post, I think I want to call it as unaligned unless something catches my attention. Albeit Bessie could be slipping that they are a team at one point in this post. Hmmm. I'll wait a bit longer.
• Bessie implies that Sniper and WMU are town in their first semi-thorough pretense of casing me. Also implies that Moody is town, absolutely feeling like it could be distancing. Also implies that Madge and Heury are town, though the latter could be distancing. Bessie+Madge unaligned. Bessie+Sniper probably unaligned.
• Response to moody and handling of them doesn't really change things. I think they're trying to distance by asking moody to play more in the thread. Probably already asked some in scumchat. One of the easiest ways to distance that exists, just asking for more activity.
• Replies to the worst as if she feels obligated. Bessie+worst unaligned.
• Discussion with madge and WMU is fluff. Tries to pull worst away from their own organic reads onto me. Stronger unalignment there unless the worst is phoning it in this game, but I can't imagine the worst agreeing to follow bessie's lead this game given how bessie has played. And the null read comment definitely feels like scum trying to pull town into their con game. I sorta feel like Bessie sets up a soft-defense for Madge here. A bit of a concern. Bessie response to boomfrog is a slight unalign.
• Reiteration to WMU and Worst looks like busy work. Usually not something that would necessarily include a buddy. Response to WMU is a good look for WMU. Bessie+WMU probably unaligned. Buddying up on Boomfrog is concerning. Handling of the worst still feels unaligned. Reads similarly to handling of me, like bessie's first three chosen miselim targets are myself, the worst, and madge. WMU response feels firmly like a pocket attempt. Could be buddying but meh. I'll keep that team in the running, just less likely. Comment to moody is still just asking for more activity.
• Lets moody off easily after a misunderstanding. Uhh what? Readlist is a good look for worst, WMU, Boom.
• "But if I don’t reply to everything Osie posts he calls me scum for it!" to the worst... I've never said any thing of the sort, and it's a great look for the worst that bessie's trying to pull him into their orbit. Comments to madge don't look like much, maybe a bit of a pull away from them being unaligned to just probably unaligned. Comment to Sniper feels like scum coaching town. Oh jeez, she repeats the comment that I call her scum for not replying to everything she writes. OH I GET IT, it's because I called HER out for it. She's trying to use my case on her as a case against me. Wow. I'm so happy that I'm done with this person's worthless posts. Bessie+boomfrog probably unaligned.

Bessie ISO leaves:

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Moody+bessie (+++)

Moody+Heury (+)

Moody+Madge
Bessie+Heury
Heury+Boomfrog
Heury+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+Worst
Heury+WMU
Boomfrog+Madge
Boomfrog+Sniper
Boomfrog+Worst
Boomfrog+WMU
Madge+Sniper
Madge+Worst
Madge+WMU
Sniper+Worst
Sniper+WMU
Worst+WMU

Moody+Worst (-)
Moody+WMU (-)
Bessie+WMU (-)

Bessie+Boomfrog (--)
Bessie+Madge (--)

Moving on (thank all that is holy) to Heury.

Heury only has one post which doesn't really unalign them from anyone. :'( Next...

Next we have Boomfrog.

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• Reachout to WMU and Worst is a very slight unalign.
• Fluff.
• Responds to bessie's greeting with something social, to which bessie doesn't really follow through (despite railing on social posts in my case). I feel like boomfrog, like myself, is a genuinely social player and at least also projects being a social person. Regardless of where this game goes, boomfrog is someone I'd love to have a meal with at some point and see in future games.
• Response to me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• None of this feels outside the realm of fakable, and boomfrog has seemed quite capable in my time knowing them. Does make boomfrog feel slightly more townie, though.
• Question to WMU seems slightly less likely to be aligned as I think it would have come up in scumchat.
• Asks the worst for a read. Okay.
• Calls out the worst for not having a read on me as of yet. TBF most people who know me don't make a Day 1 read on me. I usually get killed Night 1 out of paranoia from scum or miseliminated Day 2 out of paranoia from town at some point while I'm not around to defend myself. Boomfrog+Worst unaligned.
• Questions me on Bessie. I slightly feel like boom's posts make me wanna push their team possibility to slightly more likely, but I'll hold off for now.
• Response to me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Scumping on the worst. Continuing to seem unaligned.
• Talks about myself and bessie. Doesn't really give a read on Bessie, just an unalignment between myself and Bessie (no shit Sherlock). NAGL for Boomfrog, tbh, although I'd USUALLY townlean this type of post.
• Explains earlier comment to me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Asks for prods on half the game. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Deadline talk. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Deadline talk. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Pokes the worst. Continuing to seem unaligned.
• Coaching of Sniper. Not sure if I like this post or hate it. Boomfrog+Sniper unaligned.
• Response to Moody doesn't feel like theatre. Still feel unaligned. Slight alignment towards Bessie.
• Vote for Moody. Hmm. This doesn't feel like a bus. Still feel unaligned. Slightly feels like trying to pull people away from bessie though.
• Question towards WMU about Bessie. Sorta comes out of nowhere. Not getting a ton out of this.
• Response to me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Ooh, this is a good post to see in regards to bessie. This reminds me of why I liked BoomFrog's posting this game, even as I'd sorta been bothered by how low on team-indicative content (or content at all) their posts were. Slight unalignment there.
• This continuation response to bessie is... really giving bessie a lot of undeserved leeway, though. I can see that this might just be that boomfrog is tired of bessie's miselim push wasting the time of the thread and is trying to give bessie her hundredth chance to do something more productive.
• This is a really good post on me. I'd much rather continue to eliminate and stop thinking about people who can't form a good miselim push on me than waste a Day phase on someone like bessie. Okay, boom, you can have your townie points back. I think this can also be a firm conclusion for boom and bessie. Bessie+Boomfrog unaligned.
• Boom pulls Bessie to vote for Moody. Good post.

Boomfrog ISO leaves:

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Moody+bessie (+++)

Moody+Heury (+)

Moody+Madge
Bessie+Heury
Heury+Boomfrog
Heury+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+Worst
Heury+WMU
Boomfrog+Madge
Boomfrog+WMU
Madge+Sniper
Madge+Worst
Madge+WMU
Sniper+Worst
Sniper+WMU
Worst+WMU

Moody+Worst (-)
Moody+WMU (-)
Bessie+WMU (-)

Bessie+Madge (--)

Noting the Bessie+Madge team at the bottom, I'm reminded of something a mentor once pointed out to me, that early pushing and poor back-off often is scum trying to distance. I think I'm going to combine that with the rest of the - tier instead of having it at lower likelihood, unless I see something from Madge firmly unaligning them. I'm also going to use the fact that I think Boomfrog is probably just town to lower the likelihood of other Boomfrog worlds. That leaves:

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Moody+bessie (+++)

Moody+Heury (+)

Moody+Madge
Bessie+Heury
Heury+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+Worst
Heury+WMU
Madge+Sniper
Madge+Worst
Madge+WMU
Sniper+Worst
Sniper+WMU
Worst+WMU

Moody+Worst (-)
Moody+WMU (-)
Bessie+WMU (-)
Bessie+Madge (-)
Boomfrog+Madge (-)
Boomfrog+WMU (-)
Heury+Boomfrog (-)

Next we have Madge.

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• I don't read into posts prior to the start of the game for alignment since that just feels like memeing at best. So our first post to examine is an RVS vote on the worst and social statement. Madge also expresses distaste for bessie's push on her. Leaning unaligned there, but I'm gonna see if there's something else.
• Fixing a typo in the previous post. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Vote on bessie while townleaning bessie for a null-tell? This post is just confusing to all get-out. I don't remember how madge handled her scum buddies in SooT, but this is pretty wacky no matter what their alignments.
• Madge's response to Bessie is limp-wristed enough that I can't really unalign them, and the quick unvote is meh. Wait, this post got edited? What?! +-= readlist is, as mentioned not helpful because of no explanation or reasoning. WMU point seems like something that might get explained in scumchat if they were aligned. Bessie point is very reasonable. I don't think the Boomfrog point is how Madge would handle a scumbuddy, but I think I'll get back to that.
• Not much in terms of unalignment here outside of slight ping for Boomfrog.
• Comment on me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Blah. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Fixing a typo in the previous post. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Repeat of unvote, and blah. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.

I think I'll give it to the Boomfrog unalignment. Madge has startlingly little content; slightly upping her stock as scum for me. I don't know... I guess I'll just push up the likelihood of the non-Boomfrog Madge teams, especially given lack of discussion? That leaves:

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Moody+bessie (+++)

Moody+Heury (+)
Moody+Madge (+)
Heury+Madge (+)
Madge+Sniper (+)
Madge+Worst (+)
Madge+WMU (+)

Bessie+Heury
Bessie+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+Worst
Heury+WMU
Sniper+Worst
Sniper+WMU
Worst+WMU

Moody+Worst (-)
Moody+WMU (-)
Bessie+WMU (-)
Boomfrog+WMU (-)
Heury+Boomfrog (-)

Next we have The Snide Sniper.

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• Going Postal Bomb comment. Even at the time, I figured this might just be a joke, but I figured it might be a soft so they could later claim and refer back to it. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Open question about my meta. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Follow-up on the worst's response. This feels slightly unaligned, though no elim vote is just not a good look. I guess they're newish, though? Hmm.

I want to unalign somebody here, but there's just not nearly enough content to do so. As the site admin I'd figure they would contribute more thoroughly, though I suppose... Ehh, not going there. That just doesn't feel like a productive train of thought. I'll note the slight unalign of the worst and just leave Sniper's other team possibilities where they are. That leaves:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Moody+bessie (+++)

Moody+Heury (+)
Moody+Madge (+)
Heury+Madge (+)
Madge+Sniper (+)
Madge+Worst (+)
Madge+WMU (+)

Bessie+Heury
Bessie+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+Worst
Heury+WMU
Sniper+WMU
Worst+WMU

Sniper+Worst (-)
Moody+Worst (-)
Moody+WMU (-)
Bessie+WMU (-)
Boomfrog+WMU (-)
Heury+Boomfrog (-)

Next we have the worst.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

• Madge vote with a soft comment on WMU. Huh. Other than slight potential for a pocketing on me, I don't get a ton out of this, but I think based on what I saw in SooT, the worst would have difficultly keeping their excitement down in their entrance if they rolled scum with Madge, so I'mma slightly unalign them there.
• Joke to me. Out of context this looks like he's talking about Covid, lol. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Further joking to me. Worst and I like starting games in a similarly social manner. <3 Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Joking callout of my vote. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Okay, here we get the start of the WMU-Worst back-and-forth. I haven't really sat down and unpacked this in detail, so let's see. This first post doesn't really sway me one direction or the other. Easily could be theatre.
• Response to boomfrog is good. Slight unalignment still.
• I think this refers to Madge's weird post. Slight unalignment.
• Question to bessie. Still feel unaligned.
• Vote on bessie. Still feel unaligned.
• Comment to madge feels strangely positioned. I wanna say slight unalignment but I'm just not sure how to read this post.
• Obvious sarcasm is obvious. This seems like a lot of work to setup. It's something I could see myself doing with a serial FPSer, but probably not the worst doing with Madge as a team. Madge+Worst probably unaligned.
• Moody comment is probably unaligned? I could see this being positioning of various sorts because it's the worst, but I'm feeling relatively good about it.
• Joke to me. It's hard not to enjoy the worst regardless of what I think about their alignment this game. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Townread on Madge? Uhh what? Again, not sure what to think here.
• Comment on playerlist composition. Slight unalignment towards WMU, maybe?
• Yeah, okay, this is probably not theatre? Still not quite there on definite unalignment, but another point in the favour of unalignment.
• Read on me to boomfrog. I think the way that they respond to boomfrog is still a good look for unalignment.
• Scumlean on WMU feels legit. Still at slight unalignment since the worst and WMU both have a huge scumrange in my experience.
• I don't care for how the worst took my words on WMU casually. Though at least in this case they did follow it up with quoting me so I could see it being unintentional. Worst+WMU unaligned.
• Follow-up to previous post. See comment there.
• Good comment to Boomfrog about me. Still feel unaligned.
• The way they position on Boomfrog's vote on them draws attention in a way I feel scum usually doesn't want to do. Still feeling unaligned with Boomfrog.
• LAMIST comment... Hmm. I don't think the worst uses this for either Madge or WMU. I'll check back in at least once more on Madge.
• No, I definitely was concerned about the worst trying to pocket me. Worst+WMU still definitely feel unaligned.
• Heh. Joking attitude is a good look.
• Response to me is pretty much exactly what I was looking for there. "Nuance" is the operative word. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• The worst answers both myself and WMU here. I think he's trying to engage a conversation into a towncore. Still feels unaligned from WMU.
• Elaborates on earlier question. The worst might have a bit more patience than me sometimes. Bessie+Worst still feel unaligned.
• Sheeping of Boomfrog. Still feel unaligned.
• Slight pockety ping towards me, but response to bessie still feels unaligned.
• Responds to a bunch of WMU thoughts. Worst+WMU still feels unaligned (and TvT).
• I can see how the worst comes to this vanity guess. Still feels unaligned from both of them.
• Hmm. One of the few instances in the worst vs WMU where I feel like the worst is a bit more conscious about them sorta shouting past each other. Even more cements them feeling unaligned for me.
• Worst+WMU still feel unaligned... And I'm kinda tired of thinking about them.
• Heh. Worst+WMU still feel unaligned.
• The way that Worst addresses Sniper doesn't feel like theatre. Slight unalignment. I'd probably combine this with their earlier slight unalignment to fully unalign them, but maybe not quite.
• The worst maintaining positive social interaction even with someone who he has scumread throughout the game. This is why I love playing with them.
• Read on me is solid and worst still feels unaligned from bessie.
• Odd self-analysis. Huh. This does feel organic but doesn't give me a whole lot of unalignment that I don't already see.
• This was kinda a weird interaction given how much content the worst has this game, but it is what it is.
• The worst seeing that I'm burnt out from bessie wasting my time around the same time as I do. I like it. Bessie and the worst still feel unaligned.
• Again, I don't like people stealing my wording, but Worst+WMU still feel unaligned.
• Where did moody come from? Uhh...
• Oh. I see. This doesn't feel like a bus. Moody+Worst unaligned.
• *Yawn* ... Worst+WMU still feel unaligned. And both town.
• Worst calls out Sniper and pushes them for more. Slight unalignment. Sniper+Worst unaligned.
• Another /barn post. And they still feel unaligned.
• Moody+Worst still feel unaligned here.
• Readlist feels very reasonable, though I think Sniper should probably be a bit higher based on what I've seen from the worst. Otherwise seems fine.
• I read that "ooohhhhhhh" in a really raunchy way. Madge+Worst still mostly feel unaligned.
• Another /barn post. And they still feel unaligned.
• Hmm. Slight unalign for Heury+Worst, though not definite.
• Solid post on me. Further slight unalign for Heury+Worst.
• Question to Heury about Sniper. I feel like the worst wants to see Heury's reasoning here and I like it. Heury+Worst unaligned.
• Solid post on bessie. Still feel unaligned.
• Joke to me... Yeah, this just feels like super natural the worst. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.

*Phew* That was a lot. And it leaves:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Moody+bessie (+++)

Moody+Heury (+)
Moody+Madge (+)
Heury+Madge (+)
Madge+Sniper (+)
Madge+WMU (+)

Bessie+Heury
Bessie+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+WMU
Sniper+WMU

Moody+WMU (-)
Bessie+WMU (-)
Boomfrog+WMU (-)
Heury+Boomfrog (-)

Madge+Worst (--)

I think I'mma rule out the Madge+Worst team as well. I feel like Madge also wouldn't be able to contain her excitement and I haven't really felt that from the two of them (despite the worst's mountain of posts). That leaves:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Moody+bessie (+++)

Moody+Heury (+)
Moody+Madge (+)
Heury+Madge (+)
Madge+Sniper (+)
Madge+WMU (+)

Bessie+Heury
Bessie+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+WMU
Sniper+WMU

Moody+WMU (-)
Bessie+WMU (-)
Boomfrog+WMU (-)
Heury+Boomfrog (-)

Next we have WMU.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

• Response to me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Callout of worst's early joke. Good look for WMU, but not out of her scumrange (TBF, not much is; WMU's amazing).
• at implication that NUF gameplay was intentional. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Decent question for the worst. Still feel unaligned.
• Good jokey response to me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Follow-up to the worst. Still feel unaligned.
• Blah. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Reasonable-looking TR on me, though I'm still paranoid of a pocket. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Question of Moody feels very organic, like she caught onto something. Moody+WMU unaligned
• Follow-up on the worst. Oh boy, I get to go through the other side of this. Still feel unaligned.
• Callout on Madge. Not outside of theatre range, but slightly pings me more towards unalignment.
• Explanation to Boomfrog that I feel would have been in Scumchat if they were aligned. Slight unalignment.
• Follow-up question to Boomfrog also doesn't feel aligned, but does feel kinda for the sake of it.
• Worst+WMU still unaligned.
• Worst+WMU still unaligned. This actually feels a bit more organic.
• Response to me. Madge+WMU slight unalignment, though this is not entirely outside of WMU's scumrange. *Sigh*
• Boomfrog+WMU slight unalignment. If one of them is scum, it's always WMU here. Adding together for Boomfrog+WMU unaligned.
• Hrm. Worst+WMU still unaligned. I kinda like this post even if there's potential for scumpings.
• I love WMU. Worst+WMU still unaligned.
• Question to me. Feels sorta like an RT. I like it, though it's not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Again this sorta feels like a good post regardless of WMU's alignment. Worst+WMU still unaligned.
• Poking Bessie for activity. Not outside of WMU scumrange as buddies at all.
• Worst+WMU still unaligned.
• Response to me, TR on me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Comment to Sniper. Doesn't feel like theatre. At least slight unalignment.
• Response to me. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Worst+WMU still unaligned.
• Good response to Madge. Madge+WMU slight unalignment.
• Worst+WMU still unaligned. Indignation feels organic.
• Push towards Madge feels unlikely to be a bus. I do like this post a lot though. Madge+WMU unaligned.
• NUF link. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Bessie callout. Doesn't feel like a bus. Bessie+WMU unaligned.
• And Madge callout which feels a bit out of nowhere. Still feel unaligned.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Moody+bessie (+++)

Moody+Heury (+)
Moody+Madge (+)
Heury+Madge (+)
Madge+Sniper (+)

Bessie+Heury
Bessie+Madge
Heury+Sniper
Heury+WMU
Sniper+WMU

Heury+Boomfrog (-)

And Heury has made some posts. Okay, let's see.

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

• Blah. Not indicative to me of unalignment from others.
• Question to WMU, feels slightly unaligned.
• Calling out bessie, response to me (gross given earlier discussion). Doesn't feel like a bus of bessie, but that could be pocketing. Slight unalignment for Bessie+Heury.
• Continued slight unalignment on Heury+Bessie. I don't care for this post.
• Odd question to the worst. Heury+Worst still unaligned.
• Callout on Moody looks decent. Slight unalignment.
• Vote for Sniper sorta comes out of nowhere. Could be distancing.
• Follow-up response to me about bessie is not a good look, but definitely unaligns from bessie.
• Boomfrog comment is not doing anything for me in either direction.
• May TMI boomfrog? Not that boomfrog looks particularly scummy. Could also be buddying. Leaving that where it is. I don't like this listing. Very sus.
• Response to bessie is a mindmeld for me and a good callout. Slight unalignment again.

Not much here still, but a bit of shifting. Lots of possible teams include Heury.


FINAL LIST:

• Moody+bessie (+++)
• Moody+Madge (+)
• Heury+Madge (+)
• Madge+Sniper (+)
• Moody+Heury
• Bessie+Madge
• Heury+Sniper
• Heury+WMU
• Sniper+WMU
• Bessie+Heury (-)
• Heury+Boomfrog (-)

The removed teams are still quite possible, but this is a decent set of teams to consider for D1/D2. Moody/bessie are still the ideal people in which to elim for Day 1. Not much surprise there, they're both extremely scummy.

Osie's Unofficial Votecount:

Osieorb18 - 2 - bessie, moody7277
Bessie - 2 - Osieorb18, the worst
Moody7277 - 2 - boomfrog, madge

Madge - 1 - xX_wakemeup1337_Xx
No Elim - 1 - the snide sniper
The Snide Sniper - 1 - Heury

I'll vote for moody to self-pres if necessary once I wake up; they are my second highest scumread. Maybe I won't have to do so if other people bother to read bessie's posts and catch on to how scummy she's been.

In the meantime, heading off to go do something else.

[osieorb18]

And the order has remained the same for two days? Moody posted a strong town read of you. Normally you bite people's head off for an unsubstantiated default "Bessie is town" stance. Why have you not even brought it up?

Totally Garcia'ing here, but it's because she wouldn't want to call out a buddy.

[osieorb18]

Because if I have to I'll defend her

Blech, this is what you want to defend:

I’ll even self vote if you ask me to.

That's never a town slot.

[osieorb18]

They are both scumtells and you only go after Osie.

Osie had an extreme reaction over my comment, and he’s the one that went after me.

@WMU - This is blatantly false, by the way. I questioned bessie about her pre-game-based push on Madge and she freaked out and followed up in the same post with the start of her bad faith push on me. Here's the series of relevant posts:

Madge, I don’t like your confirmation post. You asked a question that was already discussed in the signup thread here . And you were part of that discussion.


FoS osieorb18

Madge, I don’t like your confirmation post. You asked a question that was already discussed in the signup thread here . And you were part of that discussion.

This is worded as if you're considering this to be alignment relevant?

Madge, I don’t like your confirmation post. You asked a question that was already discussed in the signup thread here . And you were part of that discussion.

This is worded as if you're considering this to be alignment relevant?

I’m considering as to whether Madge’s post is alignment indicative. As I am considering every post and whether it is alignment indicative. Are you not doing the same?


Madge’s is a post to make a post, asking a question to which she already knows the answer. It is active lurking, as is most of your content thus far. Except for your post fishing for my opinion, and this bit of role fishing:

Oh no, is there a bomb here? Has someone gone postal!?

This kinda feels like it could be a softclaim though. Softclaiming a killing role is... townie?

%%%

Because if I have to I'll defend her

Again, the above is what you're defending? *raised_eyebrow*

[osieorb18]

Because if I have to I'll defend her

And again, THIS is what you're defending? Someone who's holding your past mistakes over you to shame you into following her? What harm did bessie do to you in the past? Are you okay?

Might I remind you that you misread Vicarin in that game and were against his elimination until he finally claimed scum?

[heuristically_alone]

Odd greeting to BoomFrog

I wouldn't read too much into that. Bessie uses BoomFrog in every single reads list in every game and it's just exciting to see BoomFrog in a game again. "me me me" is more of an inside joke.

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

Good morning, before breakfast and because the time seems to be too short i want to answer to Bessie

I’M HEREEEEEEEE!!!!

I'm fairly confident that this is a tactic Osie would find distasteful. He's a fairly principled player and that is an unfun way to win. Note how he criticized you for what he thought was you ruining a "casual game". He wouldn't use that kind of tactic. Vicatrian was much more of a "anything not against the rules is fair play" and "victory at any cost" type of player.

Might I remind you that you misread Vicarin in that game and were against his elimination until he finally claimed scum?

@Bessie: vote Moody? I know he's your second choice scum pick.

Moody’s not my second pick, the Worst is. WakeMeUp requested my reads on every player so I made a Woof-Grr list two nights ago.


@the Worst, thank you for the town-scum list. I asked you another question in the same post and I would be interested in your answer:

I’m not sure why you think mafia should display signs of guilt, and what that would be. Can you give me an example?

Pre post edit: You did touch on this in regards to Osie in this post , but I still would be interested in your answer to my question.

Let me post the link to that game, I know I received a request for this
https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/ ... ry.141207/

That was me, thank you.

Bessie what is the difference for you between what Madge posted ("i am town this time, promise" - with a reversed smiley) and what Osie said "why the hell would I put it in the thread as a wolf?"
They are both scumtells and you only go after Osie.

I don’t believe in claiming Day 1, and I don’t believe in claiming town, even though I know a lot of people do it. I feel that if someone keeps reminding the thread that they’re town (or the opposite, that they’re not scum) then perhaps the reason is because they’re not town. I made my comments to note my disapproval. Madge saw my comment and moved on and I have noted it; Osie had an extreme reaction over my comment, and he’s the one that went after me. I know you’re friends with Osie and don’t know me, but I think you really should try to see our conflict from a neutral point-of-view. Your question is phrased in a way that shows you are looking at it from Osie’s point of view.

I think you forgot I said your fight may be t./t so how am I looking at it from Osie's PoV?
The fact Osie is my friend and we know each other well means we can have a better read for each other and that's enough. Also I have an history of reading him well andI suspect him for villaging here.
Wouldn't try Madge as scum to ignore you to hide in front of your possible tunnel? Osie didn't hide.

This post pings me hard. Voting a town lean is a nonsense

This vote was during RVS.

It doesn't matter, the logic is screwed

I struggle to believe that town!Bessie gives negative points for town claiming early d1.

@heury, you need to play mafia more often! I have always been against town claiming, and had a lengthy argument with LaserGuy about it in a recent game. I don’t have time to go through old games right now, but you don’t need to take my word for it, you can ask Madge, BoomFrog, or Moody, whomever you trust, to confirm or deny this.

Her posting outside of bessie/osie is also really deeply superficial? Like she's commenting on a lot of stuff and asking a lot of questions but I'm resding over it and going "mm ok" and then resuming. When I answer the questions shes directed at me, i dont feel like she's interested in my answers.

Oh but I am interested in your answers. And I’m anxiously awaiting your answer to the question I asked previously.

I usually open with my RL schedule in my opening post; I didn’t think I needed to here because everyone in this game has played with me before, but I shouldn’t have expected you to remember. I have very little time on weeknights and am limited to about an hour of play time. I have lots of time on weekends so that’s when I do the bulk of my posting. This game started on the weekend, which is why my content level dropped in later days.

Because if I have to I'll defend her, but that sounds exhausting. And btw, I assure you that regardless of alignment her goal has never been to purposely cause someone an unenjoyable game.

I respect the effort in the team analysis, but I already know you're going to vote Moody at the end.

Don’t worry about defending me. I don’t mind being eliminated today, because it means tomorrow you will all be able to see Day 1 for what it is. I’ll even self vote if you ask me to.

Osie’s going to vote for me anyway. He said in this post he was going to leave his vote on me for the rest of the game.


Re schedules, I don’t play at work, because I’m working. I can check the thread briefly about 4-5 hours before deadline but I will not have time to answer any lengthy questions, so if anyone wants to ask me something, please do so within the next 4 hours.

Isn't the bolded a prejudice?

[Seven]

11 hours 35 minutes to deadline link: https://bit.ly/3uFIXcL

Votals
Osieorb18 - 2 - bessie, moody7277
Bessie - 2 - Osieorb18, the worst
Moody7277 - 2 - boomfrog, Madge
Madge - 1 - xX_wakemeup1337_Xx
The Snide Sniper - 1 - Heury

No Elim - 1 - the snide sniper
Not voting - 0

With 9 alive it takes 5 for an elimination.

[madge]

I'm not going to be online again before deadline (I mean maybe in the next hour or so), so unfortunately we're going to have to leave my contribs there. Looking forward to tomorrow when there will be FUN to base our game on.

[madge]

Basically just assume that everything BoomFrog says I am yelling "YES! YOU ARE SO RIGHT! GO GET 'EM SUGAR!"

[the worst]

We need to consolidate wagons.

Snide, wmu, huery: could you vote for an actual wagon when you're on? Ive explained why I'm pretty sure bessie is scum here. "She's not today's elim" isn't useful - please try and band love one of bessie/osie/moody.

I don't think we're wantoning two wolves today and tbqh I dont even understand why the counterwagons exist.

[the worst]

Madge can you talk me thru why you're on moody here? What do you think he's doing as scum here - does he seem any different to last game to you?

[the worst]

@bessie I've gone back over your iso a couple of times and I think this is the only thing you've masked me that I haven't answered (if ive missed something, my bad; I'm constantly mobile posting so despite being snarky I do find it hard to keep tabs on everything addressed to me)

I guess we do have completely opposite views on this then, because I gave you the reason I was pinged (scum not wanting to discuss what a player finds scummy about them). I also thing the ramping up is scummy, in that I think Osie is now trying to monopolize my time so I don’t have an opportunity to interact with anyone else, and also flood the thread to appear like he is contributing more unique and useful content than he is. I’m not sure why you think mafia should display signs of guilt, and what that would be. Can you give me an example?

I'm not sure how to give you an example - there's an unconscious guilt associated with lying and withholding information and that's the entire basis of reading alignments without flips. Some people call it TMI if that helps.

I agree mafia can shit up the thread with repetitive content to look like they're contributing. I dont think osie is inexperienced enough to expect that to work, and I think the way he's doubling down on his reaction rather than trying to look good seems kinda pure.

If you've been waiting for this... I've already explained all of this? What are you looking for?