Songs of Our Times Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[MathBlade]

the worst visited wisp btw

@morgan why?

Because anyone who knows me knows I am a hyperposter. I have not done so because of the holidays. Btw ducks weren’t quacking last night if you get my drift. Little time to post.

the worst visited wisp btw

Not possible unless strongman I blocked the worst.

Lmao Seven was first.
My soft was second as I was reading
Then hard counterclaimed when I saw Seven’s post.

Wtf?

[osieorb18]

Votecount (unchanged)

Votee (Votes/Elimination) - Voter(s)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Morgan (3/6) - the worst, MathBlade, Wama
MathBlade (3/6) - moody7277, Morgan, SuperJedi224
Seven (1/6) - Märklin
the worst (1/6) - Seven

Not Voting (3): bessie, madge, xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx

Day 2 Elimination Deadline will be 10 AM PST on December 2nd.

Reminder that it takes 4 votes to eliminate by plurality and 6 to eliminate by majority.

AC 2.4

MathBlade - 12
Morgan - 15
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - 3
the worst - 6
bessie - 2
madge - 6
Seven - 12
moody7277 - 2
Märklin - 2 (repped in)
SuperJedi224 - 0
Wam - 0 (still V/LA at the time)

Fourth Cutoff

[Morgan]

jk I'm back

the worst visited wisp btw

@morgan why?

Because anyone who knows me knows I am a hyperposter. I have not done so because of the holidays. Btw ducks weren’t quacking last night if you get my drift. Little time to post.

the worst visited wisp btw

Not possible unless strongman I blocked the worst.

Lmao Seven was first.
My soft was second as I was reading
Then hard counterclaimed when I saw Seven’s post.

Wtf?

What you're talking about here is chronological order. What I'm talking about is you softed *before* you read/processed the claim.

Which you're literally admitting to in this post.

@the worst
Look at that, I was right and now you owe me a dollar.

[MathBlade]

Yes. That’s standard for a roleblocker or other negative utility PR to soft in a introductory post so?

I almost always soft regardless of alignment or role.

[Morgan]

"So," it's important to dismantle dishonest reframing of past events to maintain a narrative, like the worst is attempting to do. "Seven outed MathBlade" is wrong, and he's trying to pretend I'm talking out of my blowhole.

You're just as guilty of reframing things but I guess you're lucky because nobody cares.

[MathBlade]

"So," it's important to dismantle dishonest reframing of past events to maintain a narrative, like the worst is attempting to do. "Seven outed MathBlade" is wrong, and he's trying to pretend I'm talking out of my blowhole.

You're just as guilty of reframing things but I guess you're lucky because nobody cares.

?? I am not reframing things I am stating things as they are. I do not lie as any alignment and this is well established.

Seven outed me is an accurate narrative. I softed and Seven’s incorrect statement forced a hard claim. I was always going to soft but didn’t expect to be a counter claim.

[Morgan]

I literally cannot afford to argue with you because I'm sitting at 18 or 19 posts out of 24 for this prod period.

We're not going to convince each other of anything using meta defenses so I'm rejecting it. If I can't say "lol I would never be on a scumteam with Sabrar because the way they died is ridiculous fmpov," then you can't make meta defenses either.

You are reframing things. "Morgan is attacking my acivity!" "Morgan is attacking me because I'm easy!" "Sabrar pushed on me so I'm conftown!" None of these things happened, and the more you deny it, the less I care.

[Morgan]

And no offense, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that "duckies weren't quacking last night nudge nudge wink wink" is a block, or a track result. You outed yourself. The fact that Seven faked a result on the worst is either a stupid coincidence or some weird scum scheme that either backfired or is panning out wonderfully.

[MathBlade]

And no offense, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that "duckies weren't quacking last night nudge nudge wink wink" is a block, or a track result. You outed yourself. The fact that Seven faked a result on the worst is either a stupid coincidence or some weird scum scheme that either backfired or is panning out wonderfully.

Correct my crumbs are usually obvious in hindsight. I made it more obvious because it’s a mostly unfamiliar player base.

I have figured you’re going to tunnel me no matter what I say. I don’t write posts for you. I write posts for everyone else. Anyone who bothered with my experiment townreads me.

And as for Seven I townread them right now but it could just as easily be something made Seven care. But right now Seven and the worst are trying. Granted on my home site Seven would be dead and no one gives a fuck because the play I find reprehensible to fake shit but Seven’s meta is to do silly shit like this. Much as I want to policy Seven it’s not the right thing. What I want and what is accurate are two different things.

[Morgan]

That post didn't do anything for me, and it's not because I went into it already deciding to dislike it. It literally only comes off to me as wine.

*If* there's anything to make me rethink your alignment, it's that it seems like the playerbase is content to let you and I snipe at each other. Everyone else is gonna pop out of the woodwork come Thursday afternoon.

I'm actually going to wait until the next prod period to post because I know I'll forget if I don't. Though honestly I can't say turning into a VT is the worst punishment in the world.

[Morgan]

but you know what, before I go (because I just can't stay away wink wink)--

Unvote MathBlade

This is an olive branch, regardless of your read on me or if I end up dying. I'll try to reset my brain tomorrow.

Night everyone.

[SuperJedi224]

Goodnight morgan

~~~
Revised town/scum:

bessie
madge
moody
wake
wam
worst
morgan
seven
marklin
math

Scum in math/seven/morgan(?), still think math is the most likely but that may change closer to EOD

[Seven]

@bessie could you thoroughly layout your case for why you believe MathBlade to be scum?

[Seven]

btw @Madge for your notes, Morgan claimed to give Wam a dayvig here:

@mods is this lunchtime Wam time or Osie time?

Lunch wam time. Have 5 minutes now though.

unvote

Vote morgan


Seven did my homework for me.

lol

I gave you a dayvig.

How about you do your own thinking, please.

[bessie]

Daily catch-up post.

I don't want to bully you into voting anyone, I just don't understand how your brain is working through this.

Welcome to Madge, the exasperation of my mafia life.

What was a shocker? His elimination, or his flip?

The fact it was scum!Sabrar being eliminated D1. I'm not used to him being caught so easily. I'd like to think that had Jedi been elimed and flipped town, I would have been able to use that data point to push the vague suspicion about him into a vote, but that's speculation at this point.

As for being votepoked, would a claim be helpful to you? Madge and the worst can vote among themselves if they want one from me.

I don’t believe in claiming early unless you have info that directly leads to scum, or if your claim can save a townie from a mislynch.

What I am interested in, is why, in this post that is being quoted, and in your previous post I quoted which is here, why do they feel to me like you knew Sabrar was scum.

I think I'm someone who should be in most peoples potential scum pool atm, but I think I'm a fairly poor elimination today simply on the basis that I should be able to get a clear tonight.

If you’re mafia we can’t trust you to help us tomorrow anyway, so if I had a strong scum read on you it wouldn’t change my vote.

I'm actually a bit surprised bessie still has you as her strongest scum read after my wagon analysis. This is why I was scumreading her at the end of day because she wasn't changing her view when faced with contradictory evidence. That is how she played in the recent Halloween game as scum, so if we ever get to the point of indie hunting, it's something to consider.

I think this is the second tine you have accused me of ignoring contradictory evidence, and I still am not sure as to what you are referring (same with the Halloween game).

Like no I wouldn’t, “not have a choice”. I hate that logic. If I was AFK the rest of the day then maybe, but this game has some horrible defeatist shit.

I don’t think moody is scum so I would either push Morgan a different way or figure out the scummiest person on my wagon.

There’s not a “need” to cross vote unless 1v1. That just dilutes the VCA.

I agree with this. I do not approve of townies making pure self-preservation votes. If a townie is scummy enough to be eliminated, sometimes the thing that helps town most is to get eliminated when town can afford a miselimination, and not wait until MYLO.

Why would I as scum stop an elim on the worst?
Assume I am scum incorrectly:
Either A-> Worst is my buddy
Or B-> Worst is not my buddy and I defended him for brownie points.

If you still want to think I am scum despite all this you should be looking at motive/motivation. If there’s no scum motivation not scum. It’s pretty damn simple.

And yeah Bessie doesn’t like this I don’t care. The only way people get better is explaining you done goofed.

So if you push this wagon when I flip green everyone is better for it.

You’re not even trying to see this the way I see it. If you are scum and the worst is town, then yes I agree you have no reason to try to stop a miselim. But as I explained in detail in this post , I don’t agree with your reasons for town reading the worst. It doesn’t make sense, so if you are sooooo sure the worst is town, I think you have some other reason.

And hey, is that a “would I do this as scum” and a town claim in the same post??

And no offense, but it doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that "duckies weren't quacking last night nudge nudge wink wink" is a block, or a track result. You outed yourself. The fact that Seven faked a result on the worst is either a stupid coincidence or some weird scum scheme that either backfired or is panning out wonderfully.

I agree with this. I am notoriously bad at breadcrumbs and even I got this one.

Scum in math/seven/morgan(?), still think math is the most likely but that may change closer to EOD

REASONS???



I am sooooo glad about the posting limit.

More later I need to go out for a while.


Ninja’d by Seven while I was typing this out.

@bessie could you thoroughly layout your case for why you believe MathBlade to be scum?

Interesting you should make a request of me that you know I will fail at. I don’t do cases and I’ve already said so somewhere in this game. Oh, it’s here . But I will consolidate my reasons later when I get home.

[moody7277]

@SuperJedi: considering all the flak I'm getting from several other people, I am surprised to see myself so high on your T-S list.

What I am interested in, is why, in this post that is being quoted, and in your previous post I quoted which is here, why do they feel to me like you knew Sabrar was scum.

Because you're giving me way more credit than I deserve? I think I used the word "queasy" about Sabrar at one point D1, but there was nowhere near enough that I could pick up that would lead me to pull the trigger (metaphorically) on him, unlike enough other people to elim him.

[madge]

thanks

wam didn't confirm it did he?

btw i got hit by a feels bus so i am not going to be in a very mafia mood for a few days.

-----------------
Madge's Notepad
-----------------

BESSIE'S READS SO FAR TODAY:
Morgan scummy
Seven not scummy

Woof
Wisp
bessie
Madge
Wam
Zeniba/Seven
Suzaku/Märklin
patzer/WakeMeUp
the worst
SuperJedi224
Morgan
moody7277
MathBlade
Sabrar
Grr


WISP'S READS FROM YESTERDAY:
Wants to kill Jedi (seems to want town to vig)
Last will was that they think wake/morgan/bessie/seven contains at most 1 scum
Previously had a scumread on moody that they kind of abandoned

CLAIM RELATED NOTES:
the worst visited wisp (claimed by Seven, recanted)
mathblade blocked the worst (claimed by mathblade, confirmed by the worst)
the worst doesn't have a targeting role (claimed by the worst)
Morgan gave wam a dayvig (claimed by morgan, unconfirmed)

[the worst]

Goodnight morgan

~~~
Revised town/scum:

bessie
madge
moody
wake
wam
worst
morgan
seven
marklin
math

Scum in math/seven/morgan(?), still think math is the most likely but that may change closer to EOD

you uh, reckon math and Morgan are scum together...?

[Märklin]

Still not liking Seven because of the fakeclaim.
Just doesn't seem Town, but could also be TWTBW
Mathblade claiming roleblocker is interesting. If I recall correctly, roleblockers are generally more scum-aligned than town, but I've also seen (and hosted) games where town roleblockers exist, so I'm gonna take that as NAI.
Also, you can apparently buy rubber ducks online for very good prices, definitely doing that sometime.

The Seven-Mathblade dynamic is interesting, I'm fairly certain one of the two is scum, possibly both at this point.

[SuperJedi224]

Goodnight morgan

~~~
Revised town/scum:

bessie
madge
moody
wake
wam
worst
morgan
seven
marklin
math

Scum in math/seven/morgan(?), still think math is the most likely but that may change closer to EOD

you uh, reckon math and Morgan are scum together...?

I wouldn't consider it likely

[Seven]

I'm actually a bit surprised bessie still has you as her strongest scum read after my wagon analysis. This is why I was scumreading her at the end of day because she wasn't changing her view when faced with contradictory evidence. That is how she played in the recent Halloween game as scum, so if we ever get to the point of indie hunting, it's something to consider.

I think this is the second tine you have accused me of ignoring contradictory evidence, and I still am not sure as to what you are referring (same with the Halloween game).

Your argument was that Patzer was against the Jedi elimination, therefore they were likely buddies.

I showed you that Patzer was against the Sniper elimination in Halloween in very much the same way (on the grounds of lacking info), and was town there. Therefore, the premise that "Pat being against an elimination (on the grounds of lack of info) implies she is mates with that person" was proven false. Therefore, you no longer had any justification for the idea that Pat was Jedi's scumbuddy, yet you continued to insist that if Jedi flips mafia, Pat is mafia.

As for Halloween, I laid out what I believe to be a very solid step-by-step explanation for why Somitomi wasn't mafia (and why we should vote Wam instead) but you would not address my points.

Like no I wouldn’t, “not have a choice”. I hate that logic. If I was AFK the rest of the day then maybe, but this game has some horrible defeatist shit.

I don’t think moody is scum so I would either push Morgan a different way or figure out the scummiest person on my wagon.

There’s not a “need” to cross vote unless 1v1. That just dilutes the VCA.

I agree with this. I do not approve of townies making pure self-preservation votes. If a townie is scummy enough to be eliminated, sometimes the thing that helps town most is to get eliminated when town can afford a miselimination, and not wait until MYLO.

In this situation, this would be mathematically suboptimal play. There is no "diluting VCA" as we aren't automata that are unable to take into account context and the words a person has left behind. Saying "I am crossvoting moody here, but I do not think he is scum, I think Morgan is scum" will have the same/greater impact upon the person's town flip as simply leaving their vote on Morgan. As for why it's suboptimal, the only alignment you know for sure (barring other modconfirmed alignment reveals) is yours, so if player Moody is voting player Mathblade and those are the top two wagons at the deadline, player Mathblade should vote player Moody to neutralize/counter player Moody's impact on the wagons (resulting in net 0 voting power between them). Otherwise, by giving in, player Math would potentially be giving scum more voting power for no reason. If having his flip is good to have before mylo, then surely having the other player whose alignment he does not know to be town, and is only not being eliminated because of the +1 of their own vote, is equally and more so.

@bessie could you thoroughly layout your case for why you believe MathBlade to be scum?

Interesting you should make a request of me that you know I will fail at. I don’t do cases and I’ve already said so somewhere in this game. Oh, it’s here . But I will consolidate my reasons later when I get home.

I explained you being a technical player in a past game, I think, but I don't believe I've mentioned anything about doing cases. Those two things don't seem related to me. By case, I just mean to list out the reasons you think MB is scum.

[Seven]

I agree with what Morgan is saying about Math's claim. Ducky and Math have been portraying the fakeclaim situation as if I had triggered some massive role reveal, but Math had clearly intended to share his info coming into the day. Additionally, I found it fairly poor that a person would "counter" so quickly without seeing where the situation went. This seems basic to me even to someone who is not used to playing with gambits. If he believed I was mafia, it would have been best to see what my angle was. The claim was quite haphazard, looking back on it.

Additionally, the SvS case actually makes more sense than I think MB is giving credit for. He actually laid out why scum would do such a thing here:

I am down for Seven policy since they clearly lied without hood reason. Losing a scum on D1 either leads to quiet scum like Suzaku or gambiting scum like Seven or a mix.

Yes, perhaps people would grow suspicious of the two of them not being nightkilled as the game progressed, but perhaps to them that was worth the risk to 1) couple their votes, 2) distance themselves from one another ["why would I RB my partner!?"], and 3) clear the worst from having performed the night kill. I also agree with bessie here that MB is being way too generous with his conclusion that the worst is town. It is all a bit fishy.

[MathBlade]

1) Worst is town because I know him. Similar to how there is no logical reason to townread Seven they are all emotional because Seven is trying. Based on paper Seven should be dead due to directly lying to town. However people spoke up for Seven and said they are this anti town as town. Similarly Ducky’s D2 is town ducky.

2) You’re literally making my point. You’re suggesting ridiculously things to keep the SvS idea alive. Do you want to see my scum games on other sites? 42 people and not a one scumreads me. Surviving an elo with a cop. I know how exactly to manipulate people when I am scum. The fact there is a wagon at all on me is telling because I am not sinking to manipulating things because I am keeping the wagons pure.

3) Softs are standard. Your lying brought out my claim.

4) It is not mathematically better to just cross vote. If the counterwagon I am on is town then scum win no matter what wagon gets going. Your argument about miselimming town is better for town is quite frankly bullshit.

5) Yes I take mafia seriously. I keep hoping I find another site/Diamond in the rough that follows good mechanics/logic but instead there’s just more sites that just put up with bad play and form cliques. So it annoys the shit out of me.

There should be a town block forming but you’re instead just voting me for no damn reason at all except paranoia and I can’t be online 24x7.

Morgan is scum leading this goddamn travesty of a game right now. And if he isn’t he’s pretty much throwing as one of the few people here who knows me.

[MathBlade]

And yes counters are supposed to be done immediately. Cop claims sit. Counters/lies are immediate to prevent dissemination of bad info and piss poor suggestions and subtle manipulation.

[MathBlade]

People literally don’t lie about mechanics like that on my homesite because lying = death. That’s the way it’s supposed to be so you have that trust.