Songs of Our Times Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[Morgan]

Can other people use their votes please? You can’t all play like bessie.

[Morgan]

Is Math blocking the worst literally the only reason anyone is townreading him? Is that what we’re working with?

Math, based on my memory, your play is incredibly milquetoast and careful. You’re being self-conscious with your vote and it’s another reason I think you’re mafia.

Sorry, this wording is weird.

Math’s (town) play in the past has always been the opposite of careful. I have no memory of his scum play, so his play here feeling like the opposite of his town game is the string I’m pulling.

[moody7277]

@bessie

Maybe it's just because of my eternal slightly scummy meta, but I never figure I'll be the NK instead of a miselim.

[SuperJedi224]

When you claimed you said you got a non-player neighbor later in the game. Will your neighbor be someone that is not in this game?

That is correct.

[MathBlade]

Is Math blocking the worst literally the only reason anyone is townreading him? Is that what we’re working with?

Math, based on my memory, your play is incredibly milquetoast and careful. You’re being self-conscious with your vote and it’s another reason I think you’re mafia.

Sorry, this wording is weird.

Math’s (town) play in the past has always been the opposite of careful. I have no memory of his scum play, so his play here feeling like the opposite of his town game is the string I’m pulling.

This is patently false. My scum play is much less cautious in appearance. As a scum (not here) I am more vocal, loud and use what other people give me to manipulate them. I am more cautious as town because I have been an idiot.

[Morgan]

Right.

So if I'm town, who's actually mafia?

[MathBlade]

Good question. Why aren’t you hunting versus picking on people you feel are “easy”. Both you and Madge are doing it and it’s annoying.

I am down for Seven policy since they clearly lied without hood reason. Losing a scum on D1 either leads to quiet scum like Suzaku or gambiting scum like Seven or a mix.

But that’s all it is policy. In a role madness game lying without good reason (notice not all liars) is grounds for elim and Seven’s explanation is pretty bad. Trying to gaslight everyone is sus as fuck.

[Seven]

Vote: Madge

Test vote only. Consider my real vote on the worst.

[madge]

i don't have to be hapy you did a gambit EVEN IF the gambit was good (and it's not, really: did we learn anything useful? I don't think so)

In what way do you believe it is risk free? If he was eliminated, I would be eliminated or vigged soon after, no?

I'm looking only at Today; I don't know what powers scum has. This game is so weird you could be a cult leader who dies the night after they recruit and the recruitment target only knows their new alignment that night too. Yes, it's not a good long-term scum strat just like it's not a good long-term scum strat for the worst and mathblade to work together as a scumteam to fake the roleblock scenario. maybe you're a scum investigator and the worst is a death miller. i have no clue.

yes, probably scum!7 would trade scum for town which is almost always a good trade for us but if scum!7 tried this then scum!7 obviously has info i don't which means that maybe it IS good for scum!7 and i should be wary

meanwhile town!7 is like "i got some vague details about someone's role", which, THE WORST COULD BE A TARGETING MAFIA MEMBER AND BE LYING, do we have any proof of that at all beyond worst's word? no? so we have another claim which is possibly confusing.

what I DO have a clue about is that you did something that messes with the one thing I put faith in (peoples' claims). I don't remember stellaris mafia from 2+ years ago. i remember halloween and your lying and i remembered thinking i'm glad i wasn't playing as it drives me batty and guess what this is me batty.

i don't have contradictions to draw from so all i have is claims and what makes sense and you say "only 6 hours" but it took at least a day for you to EXPLICITLY and CLEARLY confirm to me that it was NOT a real claim in a way that i understood/trusted (yes i'm smooth brain so w/e)

I am mad. I don't like this way of play. I'm sure other people don't like *my* way of play, and they get mad at me a nd t hey vote for me for it. So that's ok.

i am quite happy to lim someone else but right now the person i'm voting for will remain you beccause I DON't HAVE ANY THING BETTER TO GO ON becaUse all i have is your ridiculous gambit that did, IN MY OPINION, nothing useful. the info we have about wrost's role is not helpful to me. i don't see it helping town.

i don't think worst is being overdramatic but maybe it's because I AM BEING OVERDRAMATIC because IF YOU REMEMBER MY PLAYSTYLE being OVERDRAMATIC IS MY ENTIRE PERSONALITY

oh and "the worst visited wisp btw" is a total claim. it is not like "i have an odd night tracker that works on anyone who didn't vote for me and this is my result" level firm claim but it's a claim. implicit would be like "so, worst, did you visit wisp?" or "i'm pretty sure worst visited wisp last night" not "THIS HAPPENED"

@mathblade i don't scumhunt i look at claims and interactions and trusted/dead townies' opinions. i'm actually two minds about my 7 vote because he was townread by wisp (RIP), but I'm keen to know what bessie thinks

@bessie do we have woof-grr list coming?

@town vig: consider per my notes below that Wisp, a dead townie who you can therefore trust, thought that jedi would be a good vig target and I don't think jedi's play has changed. i assume you've already considered this but i want to highlight it explicitly. go back through wisp's posts yesterday and confirm for yourself. obviously don't reply to this, i am not trying to get you to claim or anything, if you disagree then just ignore it.

(all obvious disclaimers that i'm not actually mad at 7 IRL but in the context of the game i'm spitting chips)

-----------------
Madge's Notepad
-----------------

BESSIE'S READS SO FAR TODAY:
Morgan scummy
(no reads for a while but I'm keeping eye out)

WISP'S READS FROM YESTERDAY:
Wants to kill Jedi (seems to want town to vig)
Last will was that they think wake/morgan/bessie/seven contains at most 1 scum
Previously had a scumread on moody that they kind of abandoned

CLAIM RELATED NOTES:
the worst visited wisp (claimed by Seven, recanted)
mathblade blocked the worst (claimed by mathblade, confirmed)
the worst doesn't have a targeting role (claimed by the worst)

[Morgan]

Good question. Why aren’t you hunting versus picking on people you feel are “easy”. Both you and Madge are doing it and it’s annoying.

I am down for Seven policy since they clearly lied without hood reason. Losing a scum on D1 either leads to quiet scum like Suzaku or gambiting scum like Seven or a mix.

But that’s all it is policy. In a role madness game lying without good reason (notice not all liars) is grounds for elim and Seven’s explanation is pretty bad. Trying to gaslight everyone is sus as fuck.

Dude, how are you easy? You're trying to argue you're confirmed town. That doesn't sound like an easy push to me.

Policy elims are boring and stagnate the game. And if anything, I expect reaction tests and fakeclaims (from either alignment) in *any* mafia game, doubly so in role madness.

Why are you so hesitant to vote me or Seven?

[Morgan]

Also, I kind of doubt that anyone on the mafia team would make a pointless gambit after losing a buddy on Day 1. Make it make sense, please.

[bessie]

OK, I'm back. Apologies for missing most of D1.
I'll have some time for a proper read through D2 and a decent post later this evening.

If there's anything anyone wants to draw my attention to or specifically wants my reaction to, please let me know.

I specifically want your reaction to anything because your last content post was early Day 1.

@Madge I'm working on it I'll try to have some reads soon.

[the worst]

Just to be clear: I can get a reasonably solid alignment check on Jedi tonight.

Seven is a solid lim, policy or not I think they're kinda scummy? They're firmly poe!

[the worst]

I feel like Madge's gaspers are as flabbered as mine are. She sounds legitimately flabbergasted. I know its like, more tonal reasoning for a read, but I think that's town indicative.

[somitomi]

Votecount

Votee (Votes/Elimination) - Voter(s)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

MathBlade (2/6) - Morgan, moody7277
Seven (2/6) - madge, the worst
madge (1/6) - Seven

Not Voting (6): bessie, MathBlade, SuperJedi224, Suzaku, Wam, xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx

Day 2 Elimination Deadline will be 10 AM PST on December 2nd.

Reminder that it takes 4 votes to eliminate by plurality and 6 to eliminate by majority.

Wam will be V/LA from tonight until Tuesday lunchtime

[Wam]

vote seven

The claim thing doesn't come from a townie mindset.

The only thing making me hesitate is I often read town seven as scum.

Other than that bessie is 99% con town. I want to gk back and do wagon analysis as I'm with whomever earlier suggested scim were already voting jedi as otherwise saving sabrar would have been easy.

[Morgan]

Fine, Seven elim is probably happening. I’m gonna reread him when I get a chance, hopefully tonight after work.

Can anyone who knows how Seven plays talk about how he might be mafia *outside* of the fakeclaim? I really don’t care to read too much into something that had virtually no consequences.

[MathBlade]

Good question. Why aren’t you hunting versus picking on people you feel are “easy”. Both you and Madge are doing it and it’s annoying.

I am down for Seven policy since they clearly lied without hood reason. Losing a scum on D1 either leads to quiet scum like Suzaku or gambiting scum like Seven or a mix.

But that’s all it is policy. In a role madness game lying without good reason (notice not all liars) is grounds for elim and Seven’s explanation is pretty bad. Trying to gaslight everyone is sus as fuck.

Dude, how are you easy? You're trying to argue you're confirmed town. That doesn't sound like an easy push to me.

Policy elims are boring and stagnate the game. And if anything, I expect reaction tests and fakeclaims (from either alignment) in *any* mafia game, doubly so in role madness.

Why are you so hesitant to vote me or Seven?

About me being “easy” that’s been the mindset. The only case was “I wasn’t here”. I was working. Initial suggestions are very difficult to overcome so poisoning the well is bad. My defense should be clear and I shouldn’t need one.

Take me and the worst for example: one of four alignments
SvS >> While this is possible to an outsider’s perspective, me claiming to have blocked the worst then one of the worst and myself not dying is suspicious. This is not a good strategic play if I or the worst are scum as we open ourselves to lots of ways things go wrong.

SvT >> Again this is possible to an outsider’s perspective but then why do I as scum true claim when I could just sheep Seven and take the elim on Wisp. The worst confirmed he was blocked and him being town means he was blocked so that means true claim.

TvS >> Possible that the worst is a strongman here and killed Wisp or just scum who got blocked but considering how Seven recanted their “implied” claim (benefit of the doubt) means that they know at least one of us is truthtelling and so continuing on is dumb, and that’s looking at Seven in the best light possible.

TvT >> This is clearly the most likely answer as the others require a lot of weird stretching and flexing to make work. I may be an idiot but I am more than likely a town idiot which makes me hella sus of Morgan because he knows better.

Now take that and add Seven onto the mix:

Seven claimed the worst visited Wisp. I blocked the worst. These are in direct conflict barring a strongman action. Given the worst said their action failed, there’s three options (pre Seven recant)

>> Seven is truthtelling about worst visiting Wisp, which means worst is lying about being blocked. (This necessitates me town, see SvS argument earlier)

>> Seven is lying about the worst visiting Wisp, worst is telling the truth about being blocked and I am telling the truth about blocking him. Now again you can argue that a buddy blocked Seven which is still logically possible but not at all likely because if I was ever rolecopped the gig would be up. So it’s more likely that I am truth claiming there.

You’re not using the mechanical driven thought you’re claiming while claiming to scumread me. You just aren’t. Seven lying was the more obvious answer and me and the worst TvT is the most logical answer. Notice how Seven has given up attacking elsewhere or reads, Seven very much reads like defeated scum. No one was posting anything and Seven didn’t push off the Sabrar wagon or a policy elim or anything. Seven and Suzaku seems like a really good scum pairing IF I have to assume that you’re town.

Seven has done absolutely nothing today that makes me think they are town and if you run a fake claim gambit (let’s assume that’s what Seven was doing benefit of the doubt) then if it blows up in your face you have to be a paragon of Townieness later so the day isn’t wasted and we either get a good elim or at the worst we get info from Seven’s flip.

About voting you, games are better when they are collaborative rather than dictated. I suggested a narrow scope and no one suggested a lurker like Suzaku either. Unless Suzaku shows signs of life he might get blocked tonight.

Secondly, whatever I do worst is forced to sheep so I would rather have consensus since I townread the worst.

Vote: Seven

[MathBlade]

Take the elim on the worst*

And I can buy that duckie. I agree Bessie is obvTown earlier mentioned as well.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore, Seven puts a test vote on Madge while their spiritual vote is on the worst when based on the VCs none of that matters. The worst + Madge while possible (esp Worst strongman possible pre rescind and how worst defends Madge) isn’t very probable so Seven should be selling worst scum.

They’re not. They just gaslit tried to say they claimed something they didn’t. If Seven is town here Seven owes us some try harding. Otherwise math tunnel engaged and people know my tunnels are strong.

[MathBlade]

Be sure to Unvote and revote ASAP please ducky since I think you technically have to be after me but I am asking osie to be sure.

[Morgan]

Ok, thanks Math.

Unvote

for now.

[MathBlade]

Order doesn’t matter ducky. But if you want go ahead.

I really want to know Seven’s mindset on the game as a whole. I want to feel Seven is town by the time Seven is done.

[Seven]

Omg 4 days until the deadline whyyy

[moody7277]

the worst visited wisp btw

@Madge no results from me. Also no breadcrumb.

Apparently this has become the Big Issue for D2. The only time I've heard of town doing a fake power claim like this, it became a major historical event and the player involved mostly decided not to do that again; xkcd members may recall the phrase "pulling a freezeblade". My impression of Seven has therefore fallen off a cliff.