Songs of Our Times Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[Suzaku]

Quick read through and summary/thoughts post.
If the order seems wierd it's because I've retained the player order from the top post, but I read through in alphabetical order.

1. Suzaku
Me

2. moody7277
Random vote. Comment. D1 explanation.
Seems I owe Wam an apology. X is X reads not necessarily filler (in response to Sabrar) - I kind of agree with this.
Nothing really stands out here, either.
Unvote

Vote: Moody
For murderising me last game

3. madge
Intro post talking about her own meta.
Seems a pretty accurate description from what I remember from playing with her before.

4. Zeniba
Intro post only.

5. Wam
Random vote. Finds MathBlade and the worst towny. Vote me for wrongfully accusing him of murder.
My apologies, I thought it was you.
@Wam - anything other than gut for the town reads?

6. bessie
Pretty much the expected intro post in normal quote-and-respond posting style.
Somewhat-in-jest poke at madge. Probably not buddies, but otherwise alignment neutral for both.

7. patzer
Intro post and has "no normal roles" vibe.
Move along, nothing to see here yet.

8. SuperJedi224
Intro post only, saying they won't vote yet.

9. the worst
Couple of random votes. Asks about Morgan's vote on Wisp

10. Morgan
Random vote. Self introduction. Like's madge's vibe. Explains vote on Wisp.

11. Wisp
Doesn't do RVS. Not going to push forward. Question about day lengths.
Lots of posts, but no real content here yet. If it's true that he's posting less than normal then I find that slightly terrifying.
Way to early for this to be problematic, but seems a little active lurky to me. Maybe just really talkative.

12. Sabrar
Intro post and RVS on Wam. Doesn't like "filler" reads and questions Wisp comment.
Valid poke on Wisp, I think.

13. MathBlade
Intro post and RVS. Some fluffy responses and meta talk. Not played with him before, so no idea if genuine.
Likes madge's vibe. Possibly somewhat serious vote on me for not interacting (true).
Nothing that strikes me as particularly alignment indicative at this point.

And I love the programming proverb in your sig Suzaku.

Thank you. It will possibly change to another fortune cookie at some point.

So, yeah, not a lot to go on at the beginning of D1, colour me surprised.
No strong reads in either direction on anyone.

Of possible note, it looks like my vote on Wam was not counted. I'm going to assume mod oversight as I know of no reason why it wouldn't have been.

Need to step away from the keyboard for a bit, but I might indulge in a little setup spec later.

[Wisp]

@Suzaku
i mean if you are a wolf you should be terrified of me, but IDK why that paragraph translates to me being terrifying
Active lurky in what way, what should I be posting?

@Sabrar
Just clarifying stuff

[Suzaku]

i mean if you are a wolf you should be terrified of me, but IDK why that paragraph translates to me being terrifying
Active lurky in what way, what should I be posting?

The terrifying bit was a comment on post count - you easily have more than twice the next most prolific player's count, and you're describing that as less than normal. I tend to visit the thread relatively infrequently, so super high post counts can get a bit daunting.

The active lurky thing is just me noticing that despite that high post count, there's not really a lot of (for want of a better word) analysable content yet. That kind of "post a lot, but don't actually say much" is generally considered scummy around here. Less than 24 hours into D1, and particularly as I've not played with you before, I'm more than willing to chalk it up to differences in play style. Think of the comment as a post-it to remind me to come back and check later.

As MathBlade said to me, we want to know what you're thinking about other players, and I haven't seen that yet in your posts.

[SuperJedi224]

I can agree with the post count being a bit daunting, yeah

Regarding other places I've played I did one or two games on the old forum (I think I recognize a few players from there) and a few elsewhere, but really none of the major mafia boards I don't think (I think the first forum mafia I played was an anonymised game hosted by one of the users from the old BitF forum back when the comic was still active, I was Meta Knight IIRC). Probably been at least a good year since I last played one.

And yeah I should probably set a pfp here.

[Wisp]

@Suzaku
A 5 day length day phase, maybe an outlier here, I will probably end up producing more content, but I still need to keep it in a check. For reference, 2 week and 1 week day phase games, can easily hit 1000 posts for me

[Wisp]

@suzaku
How common is it for you to make a read list like that, relatively early into the game?

[osieorb18]

Votecount

Votee (Votes/Elimination) - Voter(s)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Suzaku (2/8) - MathBlade, Wam
Wam (1/8) - Sabrar
Wisp (1/8) - Morgan
MathBlade (1/8) - moody7277
SuperJedi224 (1/8) - the worst
moody7277 (1/8) - Suzaku

Not Voting (6): bessie, madge, patzer, SuperJedi224, Wisp, Zeniba

Elimination Deadline is 10 AM PST on November 22nd.

Zeniba is on Vacation/Limited Access (V/LA) for a couple of IRL days.

Activity Check 1.1

Wisp - 15
the worst - 5
moody7277 - 4
MathBlade - 4
Morgan - 4
SuperJedi224 - 3
Suzaku - 3

Sabrar - 2
patzer - 2
Wam - 2
madge - 2
bessie - 1
Zeniba - 1

First 24 hours cut-off

[SuperJedi224]

For some reason I had thought the deadline was closer than that

[MathBlade]

I think there is at least one scum in Suzaku/Wisp.

Suzaku doesn’t seem to be using their vote to actively hunt. I normally “don’t do RVS”, but I get out of it ASAP by making statements. This looks more like recapping what people said versus active thought.

The wall about Wisp yet not dropping a vote seems off. He spent most of his effort on it yet it’s all commentary. I am also a hyperposter by nature and I joined this game partially to stop.

Especially how he’s willing to chalk things up to a difference in playstyle while having issues with Wisp’s content less posts bothers me. It could be scum Suzaku doesn’t want to fight with town Wisp but also has SvS vibes.

[Morgan]

-climbs into MathBlade's pocket-

In seriousness, I do at least agree that Suzaku's post set off RECAP red flags. As to whether or not Wisp is scum with/independent of this, I have no opinion as of yet. Think I want to move my vote, but I'm going to wait a bit longer before doing so because I'm out of time right now.

Also, slank cover - I work a day job and a night job now with no clear set schedule (yet!), so I'll mostly be dropping in at night EST for probably the next few phases.

[Wisp]

There is 0 need to try to think of teams at this point, but I do agree with the thoughts on Suzaku, but I want them to clarify their playstyle first. I have other problems with that post, other than it just being a useless recap, that does very little for the game state.

I very rarely see town bother trying to talk about everyone has early as 24 hours, but I don't know how a week day length could change that, nor how Suzaku typically plays. It still pings me none the less.

Why exactly do you think we are wolf/wolf?

[moody7277]

And here we have culture clash number 1, some people's reads lists are going to look like a summary plus a judgement after, although he doesn't seem to have many yet (c'mon we know there's going to be large error bars yet).

bessie: post welcoming new players with info, asks Madge for reads. +3

Madge: self-deprecating, hates daychat, bessie is bessie. +3

MathBlade: RV worst, response to my RV is that he is his own blade, describes his meta from elsewhere, positive toward Madge, votes Suzaku based off reads list. +2

Morgan: RV wisp, positive towards Madge, RV is a poke to wisp, following MathBlade. +1.5

patzer: excited for new players, supports More Powers paradigm. +0.5

Sabrar: RV wam, derisive of meta based reads, curious about wisp's post. +2

SuperJedi: no RV, other bona fides. 0

Suzaku: RV on his killer from last game, sort of reads list, discussion of posting levels. +1 (although Cynical View thinks it should be 0)

the worst: calls wisp scum and votes, switches RV to SuperJedi, curious about Morgan's RV. +2

wam: return RV on Sabrar, Math and worst townie, meta reads on Madge and bessie. +1.5

wisp: denies worst's poke about him being scum, "not going to attempt to move us forward" comment intrigues Cynical View, lot of filler, not looking for teams (except that's only valid when scum has night chat only). -2

Zeniba: no info yet. 0

Vote: Wisp

[Wisp]

so this is what they call content on raman chef? intriguing
Vibing is more fun

Doubtful one of you or Suzaku isn't a level 0 wolf here, maybe both, but that'd wouldn't be very kawaii though

[MathBlade]

There is 0 need to try to think of teams at this point, but I do agree with the thoughts on Suzaku, but I want them to clarify their playstyle first. I have other problems with that post, other than it just being a useless recap, that does very little for the game state.

I very rarely see town bother trying to talk about everyone has early as 24 hours, but I don't know how a week day length could change that, nor how Suzaku typically plays. It still pings me none the less.

Why exactly do you think we are wolf/wolf?

It’s a common wolf thing to do. Put a bunch of content about a buddy but not enough to accentuate a push. Town players tend to either town hunt or scum hunt and their votes tend to follow that same vibe. Here Suzaku spends most of his effort on you yet doesn’t come up with a read or follow up to you. So it seems performative in a way that is typically svs

[the worst]

@moody, could you talk me through on why your +s and -s are more likely to be coming from town or scum here? Or are they just activity level / game state advancement? - in which case Wisp seems like a policy vote because he's in low gear, fancy joining me on Jedi?

[the worst]

I think there is at least one scum in Suzaku/Wisp.

Suzaku doesn’t seem to be using their vote to actively hunt. I normally “don’t do RVS”, but I get out of it ASAP by making statements. This looks more like recapping what people said versus active thought.

The wall about Wisp yet not dropping a vote seems off. He spent most of his effort on it yet it’s all commentary. I am also a hyperposter by nature and I joined this game partially to stop.

Especially how he’s willing to chalk things up to a difference in playstyle while having issues with Wisp’s content less posts bothers me. It could be scum Suzaku doesn’t want to fight with town Wisp but also has SvS vibes.

Interesting take. I think there's slightly better than random chance of scum in [suzaku, wam] as well - which is handy for me because I think wam is town!

[the worst]

There is 0 need to try to think of teams at this point, but I do agree with the thoughts on Suzaku, but I want them to clarify their playstyle first. I have other problems with that post, other than it just being a useless recap, that does very little for the game state.

I very rarely see town bother trying to talk about everyone has early as 24 hours, but I don't know how a week day length could change that, nor how Suzaku typically plays. It still pings me none the less.

Why exactly do you think we are wolf/wolf?

Won't speak for Mathblade - he'll likely be seeing different stuff to me anyway. But it does feel like there's a lack of conversation happening between you and Suzaku. I'm waiting for some kind of clarity around what either of you are doing to solve the game yet, and to that ends perhaps I'm waiting for one of you to turn up the dial a little.

Wouldn't normally bother responding to this but I think your post signals that you're working on something. So I'm keen to see where it goes.

[the worst]

I love a healthy curious culture clash. it is nice to have a taste of how summarising events impacts reads, though.

[bessie]

Daily catch up post

my only read, bessie, is that bessie is beding vrey bessie so null

also one o f my nails just broke so typing clearly is... horribke

i plaqyed in xkcd sunce round 2012/13, before thqat it was on mafiascum(i think? it was a live mafia game chat thing) for lik 6 months

Pick one other player and give me a real read.

[v]Suzaku[/v]

For not interacting or getting a single read other than RVS. Give me some opinion on what you read.

Why Suzaku? At the time you made this post there were other players that had done similar or less in their opening posts.

I'm also in the ex-xkcd crowd who played a few games on Smashboards as well.

my only read, bessie, is that bessie is beding vrey bessie so null

Madge is madge and Bessie is bessie.

Could we please not do these types of 'reads'? They are unhelpful and basically filler.

I disagree. These are meta reads, but reads nonetheless. And this is ironic considering historically most of the time your reads of Madge are “Madge is Madge so therefore town”. [prepost edit: I agree with moody on this]

also one o f my nails just broke so typing clearly is... horribke

I broke one of mine a week ago and it was annoying as hell so I can sympathize.

Why did you post this? It is generally unhelpful and basically filler.

FoS Sabrar

Of possible note, it looks like my vote on Wam was not counted. I'm going to assume mod oversight as I know of no reason why it wouldn't have been.

This… seems like it could be something very important and worth noting, especially in a role madness game. No, its not worth noting, its worth asking the mod. To me your reaction is incomprehensibly nonchalant.

FoS Suzaku

For some reason I had thought the deadline was closer than that

You’re more than welcome to start posting reads now, no need to wait until just before deadline!

so this is what they call content on raman chef? intriguing
Vibing is more fun

This is kinda the style with a lot of players here; we do like our reads lists. This is not a pass, but an explanation, and what do you expect as content less 75 posts into a game? Also I’m not sure what you mean by “vibing” (or by “kawaii”).


Pre-post edit: ninja’d by the worst while I was typing this out. Will read and respond later.

[Wisp]

maybe lvl 0 is mean, but I think both of you think those posts say more than they actually do, when they don't
in terms of Moody, I don't even understand the relevance of the numbers

bessie: post welcoming new players with info, asks Madge for reads. +3
Madge: self-deprecating, hates daychat, bessie is bessie. +3
How is welcoming new players with info anything but NAI? what is the context in terms of asking Madge for reads, that differentiates it from a wolf doing the same thing? Why is self-deprecating something to not here? Hating day chat might be townie? Bessie is bessie means nothing to me

Zeniba: no info yet. 0
Why even bother talking about this player?


wisp: denies worst's poke about him being scum, "not going to attempt to move us forward" comment intrigues Cynical View, lot of filler, not looking for teams (except that's only valid when scum has night chat only). -2
Describe filler to me? since talking about things that happened with adding stuff like, "comment intrigues Cynical", with 0 thought on what that means in terms of anything. And no, if you focus on group scum day 1, you only hurt your reads, focusing on the individual level is so much better

SuperJedi: no RV, other bona fides. 0
what does this mean?

Suzaku: RV on his killer from last game, sort of reads list, discussion of posting levels. +1 (although Cynical View thinks it should be 0)
their read list, is just as weak as yours, like they mention Sabrar, and talk about how they agree that X is x isn't necessarily filler, but comments on Sabrar's hate of it, I just feel like the thoughts lack any bit of consistency, like you don't talk about agreeing that x is x isn't filler, while simply noted, "Sabrar hates filler"

And here we have culture clash number 1, some people's reads lists are going to look like a summary plus a judgement after,
lets argue that is the case, which maybe it is for one or both you, it doesn't make either of yours or suzaku's post mean anything

you do this a lot, you talk about things, and say things but don't say what they mean, you just repeat stuff that happened in the thread

Conclusion: there is 0 consistency in regards to anything stated here, numbers are superficial, and talking about a player that hasn't posted is just never +town ev

Suzaku talking about the two 1 or 0 posters, w/e u want to pretend they are still are or were at the time, again just isn't a townie mindset.

like it's not even good PBAP, its just information over-analysis, its by definition filler, you are just saying words, and not progressing anything

onto Mechanical stuff:

This game revolves around vote manipulation, it's evident in both the OP of the day phase, and in regards to Suzaku's posts about their vote not registering, I also have my own information, and questions to the mod that explain how he would handle people being unable to be voted, or vote specific player, and that is, he won't count their vote in the VC.

if Osie's other games are any evidence, a 3p exists somewhere, I am saying this for sake of clarifying my thoughts on the setup
I don't think this should be talked about anymore today

@SuperJedi
do you have thoughts

@Zeniba
where are you?

[MathBlade]

Hey all. Welcome to the boards those of you who are new here.

I'm another ex-XKCD forum player, although I wasn't really active when the forums vaporised two years back.
Only ever played Mafia on those boards, and now here. Actually probably prefer modding (hosting) to playing, but like playing too (obvs, else I wouldn't be doing it).

And first off from me:
Vote: Wam
For murderising me in the hallowe'en game.

I will answer your question with a post here.
Here Suzaku shows they’ve read the thread by mentioning his history but didn’t interact with anything in a meaningful way. It was more of a lemme hop in. I can’t get a vibe of how he plays so I pushed then haven’t liked what I have seen so I stayed.

[Wisp]

This is kinda the style with a lot of players here; we do like our reads lists. This is not a pass, but an explanation, and what do you expect as content less 75 posts into a game? Also I’m not sure what you mean by “vibing” (or by “kawaii”).

those aren't read lists, they don't say anything, though I guess Suzaku's says more than Moody, if that means anything

Vibing means, I am very unlikely to be a voice any time soon, and kawaii means cute, I was trying to be funny, but the arguement was mostly, "moody and Suzaku being wolves would be pretty depressing in terms of standards im used to"

what do you think of Moody, and Suzaku?

[Wisp]

There is 0 need to try to think of teams at this point, but I do agree with the thoughts on Suzaku, but I want them to clarify their playstyle first. I have other problems with that post, other than it just being a useless recap, that does very little for the game state.

I very rarely see town bother trying to talk about everyone has early as 24 hours, but I don't know how a week day length could change that, nor how Suzaku typically plays. It still pings me none the less.

Why exactly do you think we are wolf/wolf?

Won't speak for Mathblade - he'll likely be seeing different stuff to me anyway. But it does feel like there's a lack of conversation happening between you and Suzaku. I'm waiting for some kind of clarity around what either of you are doing to solve the game yet, and to that ends perhaps I'm waiting for one of you to turn up the dial a little.

Wouldn't normally bother responding to this but I think your post signals that you're working on something. So I'm keen to see where it goes.

my playstyle has changed, you might see bits and pieces of "Turning the Dial up"
anyways, back to vibing

[moody7277]

@moody, could you talk me through on why your +s and -s are more likely to be coming from town or scum here? Or are they just activity level / game state advancement? - in which case Wisp seems like a policy vote because he's in low gear, fancy joining me on Jedi?

The scale goes from -10 (basically confirmed scum) to +10 (basically confirmed town). It's a way for me to quantify my opinion more than just saying "lean scum" or "solid town". Activity level is not directly a factor, but if there's a lot of posts with little content, defined by me as questions to players, reads, analysis of voting patterns, that has a negative effect. There's also a small correction I can make depending on a player's meta, as to whether a player I have as +1 is "lean town" or "slightly scummy". Wisp ended up with the most scummy value, so that was why I'm voting for him.

[moody7277]

@wisp

First off, I am assuming when you say "wolf" you mean scum.

wrt Madge and bessie, it's the point that Sabrar vs me and bessie were discussing. Players who have played several games together know patterns of posting that are constant from one game to the next; this is meta. Obviously, once more data piles up, particularly power usage and flips, that will supersede the initial meta reads.

Why even bother talking about this player [Zeniba]?

For the sake of completeness. I'm weird that way.

what does [bona fides] mean?

That was where SuperJedi was talking about his previous experience. I am only interested in it insofar as more experience means any slips are likelier to be AI.

[Suzaku's] read list, is just as weak as yours

Malarkey. He had no actual conclusions, except for neutral reads on a few players. That is what it seems to me that MathBlade and Morgan were talking about by calling it a "summary". My scale system, once you get used to it, is an actual opinion of each player.